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Author Topic: Unsolicited positions from recuiters  (Read 1200 times)

midpatent

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Unsolicited positions from recuiters
« on: 06-06-17 at 11:05 am »

I'm considering moving firms, but not fully committed yet.  I sometimes receive unsolicited job opportunities from recruiters who I may have contacted in the past.  I've never actually gotten a job through a recruiter although I only tried briefly earlier in my career.  Is it a good idea to go through a recruiter?

The recruiters sometimes provide enough information that I am able to search online and find a posted position form the firm that may be what the recruiter is referring to.  I'm thinking maybe I should just apply directly (if it is in fact the same firm).

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Tobmapsatonmi

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Re: Unsolicited positions from recuiters
« Reply #1 on: 06-06-17 at 01:46 pm »

I'm considering moving firms, but not fully committed yet.  I sometimes receive unsolicited job opportunities from recruiters who I may have contacted in the past.  I've never actually gotten a job through a recruiter although I only tried briefly earlier in my career.  Is it a good idea to go through a recruiter?

The recruiters sometimes provide enough information that I am able to search online and find a posted position form the firm that may be what the recruiter is referring to.  I'm thinking maybe I should just apply directly (if it is in fact the same firm).


When I'm not looking I will listen to recruiters' information about jobs because it seems I always know someone who's looking.  LoL at those recruiters who play cagey and claim the client info is "confidential" and meanwhile just during the 2 minutes of conversation so far I've already found the job openly posted on Monster or GoInHouse websites.


But if I'm ready to make a move myself, I just don't take info from recruiters at all, until I've assessed the landscape myself.  Both for those openly advertised positions (firm/co ID'd) and for those "client confidential" recruiter ads that I can usually ferret out the principal on my own.  There have been suits where a newhire (who was hired without a recruiter involved) was alleged to have used the recruiter's "confidential" info to get to the job or for some other reason the recruiter claims they have an action against the employer for the supposedly owed recruiter's fee. 

First, I don't want to have something like this come up.  Second, a candidate without a recruiter is generally a cheaper candidate, which may in small part sway a hiring committee as between two otherwise like candidates.


Edit:  I should add that of course there are some jobs that are pretty much "via recruiter only", where the company has significant experience with a given recruiting firm and expect (and trust) them to do the major culling of candidates. 
« Last Edit: 06-06-17 at 01:57 pm by Tobmapsatonmi »
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midwestengineer

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Re: Unsolicited positions from recuiters
« Reply #2 on: 06-10-17 at 12:31 pm »

The recruiters sometimes provide enough information that I am able to search online and find a posted position form the firm that may be what the recruiter is referring to.  I'm thinking maybe I should just apply directly (if it is in fact the same firm).

Ask the recruiter if the position is being publicly advertised.  If it is (or the recruiter won't make such a representation), stop the conversation.  The recruiter doesn't have any exclusivity with the employer.

If the recruiter states that the position is not being publicly advertised, ask who is the employer.  If the recruiter won't tell you, stop the conversation.

If the recruiter tells you the employer, google search to verify that the position isn't being publicly advertised.  If it is, stop the conversation.  If your search indicates that the position is not being publicly advertised, you have a real opportunity and the conversation is worth continuing.
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examiner_bio

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Re: Unsolicited positions from recuiters
« Reply #3 on: 06-10-17 at 03:55 pm »

Has anyone had any problems going through the hiring process using a recruiter? I heard recently from a friend who went through a recruiter to land a job at a midsize IP firm.  Eight months into the job he was let go because the firm did not think his ability matched their job requirements. The firm mentioned in a confidential conversation that part of the reason driving their final decision was the large recruiter fee. I found this amazing overall for many reasons. If it were normal, I don't think the recruiting industry would be as large as it is currently. Any thoughts on the pros vs cons of using a recruiter?

Also, to chime in on this particular discussion, even though a job is publicly posted, a recruiter may know the partner who has the need. I ran into this about a year ago and was actually quite amazed. I later learned the firm has typically used a fairly well known recruiting service to weed through applicants, even though the job is publicly posted.  So in some ways it all comes down to who you know! Also, I have a former classmate who is a recruiter in non-IP legal areas, and he swears on his life that many large firms only go through recruiters to hire a new candidate even though there is a public announcement.
« Last Edit: 06-10-17 at 04:22 pm by examiner_bio »
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smgsmc

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Re: Unsolicited positions from recuiters
« Reply #4 on: 06-11-17 at 08:25 am »

So far, the only negative aspect of working with a recruiter appears to be the following scenario:

(a) A firm both posts an opening publically and engages the services of recruiters.

(b) Candidate A responds directly to the public job post.  Candidate B is referred via a recruiter.  The qualifications and experience of Candidate A and Candidate B are so closely matched that the recruiter’s fee is dispositive:  the firm hires Candidate A over Candidate B to avoid paying the fee. 

I don’t know how often the above scenario occurs.  If I weren't actively looking, and I became aware of a position through a recruiter, I would go with the recruiter.  I wouldn't google for a public post and hang up if I find one.

There are bad recruiters and good recruiters.  Bad recruiters (a) simply poll you to collect info on how much you’re making in your present position and (b) forward your resume to firms.  Good recruiters (a) get to know you and learn what your target position and work environment are, (b) review your resume and suggest improvements (sometimes firm specific), (c) give you tips on interviews (sometimes firm specific), (d) develop close working relationships with firms, and (e) are trusted by firms to screen suitable candidates.  It’s important to work with recruiters before you need one.  That way you can filter the good from the bad, and develop a good working relationship with, say, three.

I’ve also had good recruiters point out firms that they thought would be a good match for me ... even though those firms did not use recruiters.  Recruiters also typically don’t deal with newbies, since most firms won’t pay fees for newbies.  But, I have referred newbie friends to recruiters with whom I’ve established a working relationship; and the recruiters have responded with phone chats, general advice, job hunting tips, and resume reviews.  Good recruiters know that, even if there is no immediate gain for them in a particular instance, it's important to cultivate long-term relationships (they could get future business from me; or, I could refer them to colleagues).

True story:  A couple of months ago, a colleague of mine was cold-called by a recruiter.  My colleague wasn’t looking, and was happy where she was.  The recruiter convinced her, however, “Hey, it doesn’t hurt to interview.”  So she did.  Just about two weeks later, my colleague found out that her current firm had lost several key clients and started laying-off people.  She was on the hit list.  Fortunately, about a week later, the firm she had interviewed with made her an offer.

« Last Edit: 06-11-17 at 09:41 am by smgsmc »
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examiner_bio

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Re: Unsolicited positions from recuiters
« Reply #5 on: 06-12-17 at 04:06 pm »


True story:  A couple of months ago, a colleague of mine was cold-called by a recruiter.  My colleague wasn’t looking, and was happy where she was.  The recruiter convinced her, however, “Hey, it doesn’t hurt to interview.”  So she did.  Just about two weeks later, my colleague found out that her current firm had lost several key clients and started laying-off people.  She was on the hit list.  Fortunately, about a week later, the firm she had interviewed with made her an offer.

Wow -

Thanks for your whole post - very helpful.
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midpatent

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Re: Unsolicited positions from recuiters
« Reply #6 on: 06-12-17 at 05:51 pm »

Option 1:
Quote
I don’t know how often the above scenario occurs.  If I weren't actively looking, and I became aware of a position through a recruiter, I would go with the recruiter.  I wouldn't google for a public post and hang up if I find one.

Option 2:
Quote
Ask the recruiter if the position is being publicly advertised.  If it is (or the recruiter won't make such a representation), stop the conversation.  The recruiter doesn't have any exclusivity with the employer.

If the recruiter states that the position is not being publicly advertised, ask who is the employer.  If the recruiter won't tell you, stop the conversation.

If the recruiter tells you the employer, google search to verify that the position isn't being publicly advertised.  If it is, stop the conversation.  If your search indicates that the position is not being publicly advertised, you have a real opportunity and the conversation is worth continuing.

Combining these points of view, if NOT actively looking, go with option 1, otherwise go with option 2?
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UVAgal4

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Re: Unsolicited positions from recuiters
« Reply #7 on: 06-13-17 at 04:51 am »

If I am interested in the position, I insist that they tell me who it is before I agree that they can send my resumé. I tell them that I won't go around them so that they can get their commission (if I am hired) but I refuse to have my info sent somewhere I don't know. I just had an experience with a recruiter who seemed very against me- she seemed to be telling the employer that I wasn't interested in the post (I was) and that I wasn't a good fit (pretty good fit). Didn't get the post obviously. Still POed.
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smgsmc

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Re: Unsolicited positions from recuiters
« Reply #8 on: 06-13-17 at 07:07 am »

Option 1:
Quote
I don’t know how often the above scenario occurs.  If I weren't actively looking, and I became aware of a position through a recruiter, I would go with the recruiter.  I wouldn't google for a public post and hang up if I find one.

Option 2:
Quote
Ask the recruiter if the position is being publicly advertised.  If it is (or the recruiter won't make such a representation), stop the conversation.  The recruiter doesn't have any exclusivity with the employer.

If the recruiter states that the position is not being publicly advertised, ask who is the employer.  If the recruiter won't tell you, stop the conversation.

If the recruiter tells you the employer, google search to verify that the position isn't being publicly advertised.  If it is, stop the conversation.  If your search indicates that the position is not being publicly advertised, you have a real opportunity and the conversation is worth continuing.

Combining these points of view, if NOT actively looking, go with option 1, otherwise go with option 2?

I think the two options you've presented are too simplistic.  The following guidelines I would take as givens:

(a) If you have already submitted an application to a firm (or other potential employer) on your own, do not also submit an application to the same firm via a recruiter.

(b) If you have already submitted an application to a firm via Recruiter A, do not submit an application to the same firm via Recruiter B.

(c) If a recruiter contacts you and won't reveal the name of the firm, don't proceed.  After all, you need that info to avoid potential conflicts as in (a) or (b).  Also, suppose you already have some connection with that firm (e.g., you have an ex-girlfriend or nasty ex-boss who works there), and you want to stay far, far away ... you need to know up front.

The rest depends on whether you think a recruiter can add value to your career development, and how concerned you are about the hypo I presented in my previous post (you and another candidate are head-to-head, and the recruiter's fee is the tiebreaker).
« Last Edit: 06-13-17 at 07:11 am by smgsmc »
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smgsmc

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Re: Unsolicited positions from recuiters
« Reply #9 on: 06-13-17 at 07:17 am »

If I am interested in the position, I insist that they tell me who it is before I agree that they can send my resumé. I tell them that I won't go around them so that they can get their commission (if I am hired) but I refuse to have my info sent somewhere I don't know. I just had an experience with a recruiter who seemed very against me- she seemed to be telling the employer that I wasn't interested in the post (I was) and that I wasn't a good fit (pretty good fit). Didn't get the post obviously. Still POed.
  <<Emphasis added>>

That's bizarre.  If the recruiter doesn't think you're a good fit, you think he simply would say so and not submit your resume.   He damages his own standing, as well as yours, by submitting your application, and then torpedoing it.
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