Software:Safe to assume standard bus.apps patents have expired or never existed?

[projecttoday]

What if you wanted to market a new computer program you've developed that, while developed independently, performs an old function?  Are standard computer business applications generally under active patent?  I have developed a program that performs an old function and before I market it I want to be assured that I won't be sued.

[smgsmc]

You can't make any a priori assumptions.  Consult a patent attorney.

[fewyearsin]

If you want more realistic feeling of comfort before going to market, consult an attorney.

Note, however, that no attorney or attorney's advice can protect you from being sued.  Hopefully their advice will help you quickly win, though.

[Robert K S]

How old is the "old function"?

As mentioned above, you can't make patent assumptions, and it is a good idea to consult an attorney.  If the "old function" is more than, say, 20 years old, there is a decent chance any patents associated with it will have already expired, but even that is not guaranteed.

[projecttoday]

The function is more than 20 years old as is the existence of programs which perform it.  The function is a common application.

I have found that typical software patents are actually narrower than applications and are in fact found (unauthorized) in many existing programs.  Avoiding the risk entirely is difficult or impossible. 

The Alice ruling may be a game changer.

[smgsmc]

How old is the "old function"?

As mentioned above, you can't make patent assumptions, and it is a good idea to consult an attorney.  If the "old function" is more than, say, 20 years old, there is a decent chance any patents associated with it will have already expired, but even that is not guaranteed.

The function is more than 20 years old as is the existence of programs which perform it.  The function is a common application.

I have found that typical software patents are actually narrower than applications and are in fact found (unauthorized) in many existing programs.  Avoiding the risk entirely is difficult or impossible. 

The Alice ruling may be a game changer.

The focus on "the old function" itself assumes that there is an issued patent out there in which there is a claim whose scope covers the performance of the old function in general.   OK, assume for discussion such a patent does exist and has in fact expired.  You still could have currently enforceable patents with claims whose scope covers specific methods of performing the old function.  And you would still need to confirm whether your method would infringe those claims.

[projecttoday]

That's what I've found.  It is possible that my simple program uses a technique that is patented.  So there is some chance.  But the holders of these patents would find more fertile ground for attack in the many other larger, profitable applications on the market than my startup. 

As for my original question, I was thinking that one thing I didn't want to do is something really obvious.  As an example, say I wanted to put an accounting program of my own on the market.  Is there a patent on accounting programs held by QuickBooks or Peachtree or somebody and I would have to make a contract with them if I wanted to market my own, something which they probably wouldn't do.  Yes, these programs have been around for more than 20 years but I don't know for a fact they didn't get around to getting a patent in, say, 1999.  I just wanted to know if applications are patented.  It looks like they are not. 

[smgsmc]

That's what I've found.  It is possible that my simple program uses a technique that is patented.  So there is some chance.  But the holders of these patents would find more fertile ground for attack in the many other larger, profitable applications on the market than my startup. 

As for my original question, I was thinking that one thing I didn't want to do is something really obvious.  As an example, say I wanted to put an accounting program of my own on the market.  Is there a patent on accounting programs held by QuickBooks or Peachtree or somebody and I would have to make a contract with them if I wanted to market my own, something which they probably wouldn't do.  Yes, these programs have been around for more than 20 years but I don't know for a fact they didn't get around to getting a patent in, say, 1999.  I just wanted to know if applications are patented.  It looks like they are not.

I sense some underlying confusion here.  In the US, you don't patent computer programs or computer software per se.  You patent methods, often including specific algorithms, executed by a computer.  (All muddled by Alice, as you previously noted.)

[projecttoday]

Yes, I'm aware of that.  In this line

Is there a patent on accounting programs held by QuickBooks or Peachtree or somebody and

I should have said method instead of program.