Should I go to law school for patent law?? Please help!!!

[MYK]

I understand that the starting salary is bimodal with one concentration on $90k and another at $150k. Can someone explain why this is?

As Dazed mentioned, it's actually $60K and $150K.  Well, I thought it was $45K and $130K, but that was a few years ago.

Because the biglaw firms all feel they have to compete with each other, so when one sets a ridiculously high salary to get "the best" grads, the others all follow in lockstep.  That in turn drives billable hours requirements to ridiculous levels.

The rest of the world bases pay on what clients are willing to pay, and their clients aren't willing to pay nearly as much as the megacorporations, so salaries are more realistic.

[vikas kumar]

I understand that the starting salary is bimodal with one concentration on $90k and another at $150k. Can someone explain why this is?

As Dazed mentioned, it's actually $60K and $150K.  Well, I thought it was $45K and $130K, but that was a few years ago.

Because the biglaw firms all feel they have to compete with each other, so when one sets a ridiculously high salary to get "the best" grads, the others all follow in lockstep.  That in turn drives billable hours requirements to ridiculous levels.

The rest of the world bases pay on what clients are willing to pay, and their clients aren't willing to pay nearly as much as the megacorporations, so salaries are more realistic.

[smgsmc]

The rest of the world bases pay on what clients are willing to pay, and their clients aren't willing to pay nearly as much as the megacorporations, so salaries are more realistic.

If we're talking patent prosecution, it's the Megacorps who embrace the Walmart supply-chain model.  It's the Megacorps who have the clout to negotiate low flat-rate jobs in return for volume.  It's the Megacorps who consider patents to be PR rather than IP. 

[MYK]

The rest of the world bases pay on what clients are willing to pay, and their clients aren't willing to pay nearly as much as the megacorporations, so salaries are more realistic.

If we're talking patent prosecution, it's the Megacorps who embrace the Walmart supply-chain model.  It's the Megacorps who have the clout to negotiate low flat-rate jobs in return for volume.  It's the Megacorps who consider patents to be PR rather than IP.

I guess I'm looking at it from the point of all the other legal work that they do.  From what I've read here, prosecution was never huge in biglaw until they decided they could use it to leverage their patent litigation groups.

[smgsmc]

Hi everyone,

I am looking for some advice. I am considering going into patent law. I currently work as an engineer making about $70k per year. I graduated from a top 30 engineering school with a bachelors in mechanical engineering and a 3.3 GPA. I have approximately $150k in student loans in a mix of federal (about $30k) and private (about $120k in state agency loans that count as private). I am currently studying for the LSAT and think I will score competitively around a 170. I have a very good resume (3 internships, extracurriculars, clubs, technical experience). I also have experience of working in industry for about 1 year.

My plan was to take the LSAT and apply to all of the NYC area schools. Fordham has a very competitve patent law program and a relatively low LSAT score range. I think that would translate into a decent scholarship and would make this more affordable for me. Will I still be able to get a job if I go to Fordham and it's not a top ranked school overall?

Should I go to law school for patent law?
What debt can I expect from law school?
How much can I expect to earn out of law school?
How much should I look to spend on law school if I can get scholarships?
Is the risk of taking on a lot more debt worth the possibility of making much more money? Engineering salaries generally cap out in the low 100k's.

Please, any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Matt the mechE

A lot also depends on your age and family situation.  I successfully made the switch from R&D to patent agent in a firm.  I can provide you better advice if I knew your age and family situation (married?  working spouse?  kids?  age of kids?).  I don't want to guess based on your post, because some people don't follow the normal school/job track.

[Matt_the_MechE]

To answer some of these questions:

I am 22 and my marital status is single (My girlfriend and I live together and she is going to grad school). I graduated in may from my undergraduate university.

I obtained $150k in debt from going to a private school with an excellent engineering school, received a scholarship and my parents helped where they could. I paid for most of my college.

To my understanding, when I apply to law school and am accepted, I will be able to study any law that I want. Even if I get to law school and decide that I don't want to do patent law, I could always focus more on another concentration or even split my electives in multiple concentrations. Is this correct?

I wouldn't say I have a good "in" but I do know a few people that work in IP firms in NYC.

Why isn't there a demand for ME Patent attorneys? I obviously know there is a big need for CS patent attorneys but I think that ME is a pretty universal engineering discipline and there should always be a good need for us.

[MYK]

I obtained $150k in debt from going to a private school with an excellent engineering school, received a scholarship and my parents helped where they could. I paid for most of my college.

What's your citizenship and your native language?

To my understanding, when I apply to law school and am accepted, I will be able to study any law that I want. Even if I get to law school and decide that I don't want to do patent law, I could always focus more on another concentration or even split my electives in multiple concentrations. Is this correct?

There aren't really any "concentrations" in law school.  Pretty much everywhere, you all take the same classes during your first year.  You can, to some extent, focus on one area in 2L and 3L, but taking courses that will be tested on the bar is a good idea.

Why isn't there a demand for ME Patent attorneys? I obviously know there is a big need for CS patent attorneys but I think that ME is a pretty universal engineering discipline and there should always be a good need for us.

Because there are plenty of ME's and not as much work in ME areas any more.  Think of patents as a form of mining.  Eventually the vein of ore gets dug up and processed.

Also, mechanical applications tend to be relatively simple to draft, so that they can be written by people with any background.

[midwestengineer]

Why isn't there a demand for ME Patent attorneys? I obviously know there is a big need for CS patent attorneys but I think that ME is a pretty universal engineering discipline and there should always be a good need for us.

You seem to be conflating engineering need with intellectual property protection need.  While there will always be a need for ME, for example in laying out structural steel for a new building or designing new mounting brackets (ME not my background, sorry if my examples seem trivial), the question you need to ask yourself is does the work lend itself to intellectual property protection.

For example, consider the electric power industry (my background is EE).  EEs design billions of dollars worth of infrastructure every year, but none of it requires or would be helped by patent protection (traditional methods and traditional implementations).  In contrast, wireless communications are constantly changing and improving which does lend itself to  and benefit from intellectual property protection.

I hope this is helpful.  Let me know if you have any questions.

[Matt_the_MechE]

I am a U.S. Citizen and Caucasian.

Thank you for the clarification on law school and Me's intellectual property needs.

[moonman]

Also, mechanical applications tend to be relatively simple to draft, so that they can be written by people with any background.

This is a common misconception. Recombinant DNA inventions are the easy ones we give to noobs, as long as we can pry them away from the partners who hoard them.

[Dazed-n-confused]

This is a common misconception. Recombinant DNA inventions are the easy ones we give to noobs, as long as we can pry them away from the partners who hoard them.

Why do the partners hoard the noobs?

[MYK]

I am a U.S. Citizen and Caucasian.

Thank you for the clarification on law school and Me's intellectual property needs.

Don't really care about race, didn't ask.  Your citizenship and residency status are used to determine whether you can even take the exam.  Your writing is a bit stilted, so I thought perhaps you were an immigrant and/or nonnative speaker.

[khazzah]

ME is a pretty universal engineering discipline and there should always be a good need for us.

Others have commented on why there aren't a lot of patents in the ME realm.

As to the universality of your training, it's not about whether your background provides a solid foundation to *do* the work. It's about whether your technical background will be *perceived* as "good fit for this client" by a partner and/or inhouse counsel. And note this isn't done on an application-by-application basis. That is, a particular client, or division of a large client, might be perceived as a "EE" client even if they have a fair amount of mechanical work.

Also, mechanical applications tend to be relatively simple to draft, so that they can be written by people with any background.

That is indeed the perception. And as I noted above, it's all about the perception.

[MYK]

Also, mechanical applications tend to be relatively simple to draft, so that they can be written by people with any background.

That is indeed the perception. And as I noted above, it's all about the perception.

We see the same in CS, though -- anyone can do programming, therefore software patent applications can be done by anyone.

A lot of mechanicals really are simple, though.  I've read some that were hideously complex -- machinery with a certain type of motion (cardioid) that gave a moment of pause to place a workpiece in alignment, plus feed mechanisms, plus a bunch of other stuff.  I wouldn't have dared to touch that.  That was REAL mechanical engineering.

OTOH I read one which was a wall mount for a deer head.  While I doubt the inventor got an issued patent, it was not a difficult application.  I'm surprised the attorney didn't try to talk the inventor out of filing, although of course it's the inventor's decision in the end.  And anyway, that's a house payment on the hoof.

[moonman]

The other thing about ME is that it's perceived as being all about statics/mechanics. Thermodynamics and fluid dynamics all fall under ME, too. A deer head wall mount is not ME, and I dare say it's not even engineering.