Intellectual Property Forum The Intellectual Property Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

We are looking for moderators.  Message the admin if interested.

Author Topic: Working for the USPTO  (Read 2613810 times)

ThomasPaine

  • Lead Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 853
    • View Profile
Re: Working for the USPTO
« Reply #7095 on: 01-12-18 at 11:06 am »

I didn't have to recuse myself from a single case for the one or two year (can't remember how long the restriction was) period after leaving the office.  Nothing even came close to even requiring consideration.
Logged

rodya

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 37
    • View Profile
Re: Working for the USPTO
« Reply #7096 on: 01-15-18 at 08:28 am »

When I was in law school the big name IP firms paid like Biglaw (or close to it) for new associates so I assume would be paying $160k+ today. I'm talking places like Fish and Finnegan. Several of my classmates were examiners and got jobs like that. I also knew people that went to places like Oblon that I am fairly sure don't pay that well, but I don't have first hand knowledge.

What does a firm like Oblon pay ? It seems like there are big firms with a hundred attorneys e.g. Kilpatrick, then there  are small firms with 6 attorneys, then there are the places in between that have maybe 50 attorneys.

I know those middle places don't pay as well as Kilpatrick but I can't imagine they pay as little as the small places. The aipla report isn't really all that helpful figuring it out but I've always been curious what these in between attorneys are making versus say a primary.

Truly only interested in DC area rates and mostly out of just curiosity?
Logged

two banks of four

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 81
    • View Profile
Re: Working for the USPTO
« Reply #7097 on: 01-16-18 at 02:23 pm »

According to glassdoor, ~135k for associates at Oblon.  Oliff pays slightly higher at ~150k, but you'll have to put up with its (in)famous working condition.  Kilpatrick is a bit higher at ~160k, presumably for a first year associate.  For both Oblon and Oliff, it was not indicated if the compensation went up with amount of time spent at the firm.
Logged

fewyearsin

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 375
    • View Profile
Re: Working for the USPTO
« Reply #7098 on: 01-16-18 at 04:38 pm »

According to glassdoor, ~135k for associates at Oblon.  Oliff pays slightly higher at ~150k, but you'll have to put up with its (in)famous working condition.  Kilpatrick is a bit higher at ~160k, presumably for a first year associate.  For both Oblon and Oliff, it was not indicated if the compensation went up with amount of time spent at the firm.
Your numbers seem reasonable, I think both those firms start in the 135-145 range, and both will give small increases the first year or two.  Then, my understanding is that both firms want you to become more independent and kind of set your billable target and corresponding salary (to be at least as much or more than you are currently making), so that you could make anywhere between 150-250k depending on how good you are and how much extra work you're willing to do.  They are both white collar sweatshops (though most patent prosecution is, unless you have your own clients).  Partnership is largely (1) billing a lot, (2) doing decent work, (3) being liked by the current partnership, and (4) lasting a long time and "contributing" to the firm.  Personally, I feel like being a permanent senior associate or of counsel might be a better gig at one of those places.

***
As always these are not the views of any specific firm or the USPTO, and may not fully represent my own views, but these comments are provided for discussion purposes only.
***
Logged
This comment: does not represent the opinion or position of the PTO or any law firm; is not legal advice; and represents only a few quick thoughts from the author, not a well-researched treatise.  Seek out the advice of a competent patent attorney for answers to specific questions you may have.

novobarro

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 302
    • View Profile
Re: Working for the USPTO
« Reply #7099 on: 01-16-18 at 05:02 pm »

Quote
Quote from: two banks of four on Today at 02:23 pm
According to glassdoor, ~135k for associates at Oblon.  Oliff pays slightly higher at ~150k, but you'll have to put up with its (in)famous working condition.  Kilpatrick is a bit higher at ~160k, presumably for a first year associate.  For both Oblon and Oliff, it was not indicated if the compensation went up with amount of time spent at the firm.
Your numbers seem reasonable, I think both those firms start in the 135-145 range, and both will give small increases the first year or two.  Then, my understanding is that both firms want you to become more independent and kind of set your billable target and corresponding salary (to be at least as much or more than you are currently making), so that you could make anywhere between 150-250k depending on how good you are and how much extra work you're willing to do.  They are both white collar sweatshops (though most patent prosecution is, unless you have your own clients).  Partnership is largely (1) billing a lot, (2) doing decent work, (3) being liked by the current partnership, and (4) lasting a long time and "contributing" to the firm.  Personally, I feel like being a permanent senior associate or of counsel might be a better gig at one of those places.

Agreed  I think Oblon, Sughrue, Oliff each pay around $140k starting.  Your pay will go up as your billing rate goes up.  You bill more per hour, you will need to do the same work in less time, with same/similar quality.  I knew some people who went into bigger firms and got paid more, but they also had higher billing requirements (2000 ish) than Oblon, Sughrue, Oliff (1800?).
Logged

Robert K S

  • Lead Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1916
    • View Profile
What does it mean when a SPE's backlog goes unaddressed?
« Reply #7100 on: 01-16-18 at 07:05 pm »

I have an application that got assigned to a SPE in a certain art unit for examination, but looking at this SPE's stats in Patent Advisor, it seems like at a certain point he just stopped working.  His number of pending cases by year of filing goes from 0 in 2014 to about 15 or 20 in 2015 to like 145 in 2016 to more than 200 in 2017.  On top of that he didn't have any cases issued or abandoned in 2017.  There haven't been any Office actions issued for any of his pending cases.  The status of all his 366 pending cases is "Docketed New Case - Ready for Examination".  From looking at his stats alone, it seems like he just stopped working a couple years ago, even though new cases continue to get assigned to him.

I'm trying to figure out what this means for the application I filed that was assigned to this SPE.  Is he a black hole for patent applications?  Or are all the applications sitting with him in queue to get assigned to his subordinates?  Should I be worried?  Showing these stats to the ombudsman?  Or just letting things sit while his docket filters to other examiners?
Logged
This post is made in the context of professional discussion of general patent law issues and nothing contained herein may be construed as legal advice.

Tobmapsatonmi

  • Lead Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 997
    • View Profile
Re: What does it mean when a SPE's backlog goes unaddressed?
« Reply #7101 on: 01-16-18 at 07:34 pm »

I have an application that got assigned to a SPE in a certain art unit for examination, but looking at this SPE's stats in Patent Advisor, it seems like at a certain point he just stopped working.  His number of pending cases by year of filing goes from 0 in 2014 to about 15 or 20 in 2015 to like 145 in 2016 to more than 200 in 2017.  On top of that he didn't have any cases issued or abandoned in 2017.  There haven't been any Office actions issued for any of his pending cases.  The status of all his 366 pending cases is "Docketed New Case - Ready for Examination".  From looking at his stats alone, it seems like he just stopped working a couple years ago, even though new cases continue to get assigned to him.

I'm trying to figure out what this means for the application I filed that was assigned to this SPE.  Is he a black hole for patent applications?  Or are all the applications sitting with him in queue to get assigned to his subordinates?  Should I be worried?  Showing these stats to the ombudsman?  Or just letting things sit while his docket filters to other examiners?


Sounds like SAWS. 

Or - -  any chance your client is named "Hyatt"?   ;D

More seriously, I've never seen anything like this. 
Logged

bluerogue

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 303
    • View Profile
Re: What does it mean when a SPE's backlog goes unaddressed?
« Reply #7102 on: 01-16-18 at 07:36 pm »

I have an application that got assigned to a SPE in a certain art unit for examination, but looking at this SPE's stats in Patent Advisor, it seems like at a certain point he just stopped working.  His number of pending cases by year of filing goes from 0 in 2014 to about 15 or 20 in 2015 to like 145 in 2016 to more than 200 in 2017.  On top of that he didn't have any cases issued or abandoned in 2017.  There haven't been any Office actions issued for any of his pending cases.  The status of all his 366 pending cases is "Docketed New Case - Ready for Examination".  From looking at his stats alone, it seems like he just stopped working a couple years ago, even though new cases continue to get assigned to him.

I'm trying to figure out what this means for the application I filed that was assigned to this SPE.  Is he a black hole for patent applications?  Or are all the applications sitting with him in queue to get assigned to his subordinates?  Should I be worried?  Showing these stats to the ombudsman?  Or just letting things sit while his docket filters to other examiners?

I suppose it matters if the SPE is still working at the PTO.  Assuming the SPE is still at the PTO, my guess is that the SPE is holding the master docket for his workgroup.  This could happen because the former "lead SPE" if you will, left the workgroup or that he's now the "lead SPE" for some reason.  Certain AUs examine the same area and there is a master docket where one SPE keeps all the cases that are to be distributed to examiners.  It is not surprising that all his pending cases are new cases since they are to be distributed.  I wouldn't be concerned at all on the basis of numbers alone. More cases will fill up his docket as he distributes them to his examiners so the numbers may not change much.  Note, the SPE would not have any issued or abandoned cases because all those cases are supposed to be distributed to examiners and the SPE does not actually work on any cases.
Logged
The views expressed are my own and do not represent those of the USPTO. I am also not your lawyer nor providing legal advice.

abc123

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 124
    • View Profile
Re: What does it mean when a SPE's backlog goes unaddressed?
« Reply #7103 on: 01-16-18 at 08:08 pm »

...it seems like he just stopped working a couple years ago...

I would say this applies to all SPE's...indefinitely.
« Last Edit: 01-16-18 at 10:33 pm by abc123 »
Logged

bluerogue

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 303
    • View Profile
Re: What does it mean when a SPE's backlog goes unaddressed?
« Reply #7104 on: 01-16-18 at 08:12 pm »

issued for any of his pending cases.  The status of all his 366 pending cases is "Docketed New Case - Ready for Examination". 

...it seems like he just stopped working a couple years ago...

I would say this applies to all SPE's...indefinitely.

Heh.  That's a much more elegant response. :)
Logged
The views expressed are my own and do not represent those of the USPTO. I am also not your lawyer nor providing legal advice.

two banks of four

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 81
    • View Profile
Re: Working for the USPTO
« Reply #7105 on: 01-18-18 at 08:01 pm »

Does anybody find it a bit disconcerting that we have received no formal communication from Madison regarding the potential shutdown?  I don't have email from 2013, but I'm pretty sure we received updates from 2-3 weeks out and that we received confirmation ~1 week out that we can continue things as is on October 1, 2013.  Similarly in 2015, we received email about 1-2 weeks before the potential shutdown date, stating that a contingency plan was being discussed. 

So far, nada, zilch from Madison and Commerce, as if no one were in charge.  WAPO has listed the PTO as an agency that would operate if a shutdown were to take place, yet we have no clue whether that'll happen ~24 hours before the shutdown.
Logged

lazyexaminer

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 398
    • View Profile
Re: Working for the USPTO
« Reply #7106 on: 01-18-18 at 08:32 pm »

The agency doesnít know anything because we need guidance from the administration as to whether we are allowed to stay open. Itís not our decision. They will tell us as soon as they have something to tell us.

This is from a town hall today.

One would think a competent administration could have given us that answer already...like you said we knew well ahead of time previously.
« Last Edit: 01-18-18 at 08:34 pm by lazyexaminer »
Logged
I'm not your examiner, I'm not your lawyer, and I'm speaking only for myself, not for the USPTO.

snapshot

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 289
    • View Profile
Re: Working for the USPTO
« Reply #7107 on: 01-18-18 at 10:34 pm »

Given the general dysfunction of the current administration, assume the PTO will be closed if the government shuts down until you hear otherwise.
Logged

fewyearsin

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 375
    • View Profile
Re: Working for the USPTO
« Reply #7108 on: 01-19-18 at 12:30 am »

Given the general dysfunction of the current administration, assume the PTO will be closed if the government shuts down until you hear otherwise.
Finally, we can get paid for not working like the other non-essentials :)
Logged
This comment: does not represent the opinion or position of the PTO or any law firm; is not legal advice; and represents only a few quick thoughts from the author, not a well-researched treatise.  Seek out the advice of a competent patent attorney for answers to specific questions you may have.

MYK

  • Lead Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4177
    • View Profile
Re: Working for the USPTO
« Reply #7109 on: 01-19-18 at 08:02 am »

Given the general dysfunction of the current administration, assume the PTO will be closed if the government shuts down until you hear otherwise.
You mean, the Democrats shutting everything down because they want to open the floodgates for illegal immigrants is the fault of "the current administration"?

I mean, it would at least be something if they'd quit lying about what the President says -- Schumer and Pelosi announcing that President Trump had caved on DACA in a private meeting when he hadn't done any such thing, Dick Durbin saying Trump had called various countries "shitholes" when everyone else who was actually at the meeting denies that he said any such thing. . . .  But I guess that when the only people who will vote for your party are the illegal immigrants who are lying on their Clinton Motor-Voter forms. . . .
Logged
"The life of a patent solicitor has always been a hard one."  Judge Giles Rich, Application of Ruschig, 379 F.2d 990.

Disclaimer: not only am I not a lawyer, I'm not your lawyer.  Therefore, this does not constitute legal advice.
 



Footer

www.intelproplaw.com

Terms of Use
Feel free to contact us:
Sorry, spam is killing us.

iKnight Technologies Inc.

www.intelproplaw.com

Page created in 0.095 seconds with 21 queries.