Working for the USPTO

[Tobmapsatonmi]

...art units with reasonable or generous BD (hours per count) have lower attrition.  The example in the comment above of the examiner with 40 years and 5000 allowances is one of those.  I am in a pretty fair BD art unit with an average allowance rate, and IF I stayed 40 years, I'd have ~2500 allowances.  If I could allow twice as many cases, I'd have no problem ever meeting my hours.  As is, I still can get my work done in less than 50 hours a week, which is reasonable to me.

Not only generous BD.  The `80s,`90s and early `00s (pre-Dudas) were much more formulaic in terms of rejection/response.  Get the rejection, add a small amendment with an element not in the cited art, explain why there's no TSM, get allowance. 

If I was going to pick which 30 years I wanted to be an examiner, starting at a time that would end in 2005 would be much preferred over starting at a time that would have me examining now.  If you'd started back then, your allowances would probably be a lot higher over the same 8 years* or so you've been examining.

(Well, hotel program is a big perq of "now", but still).




*Edit to add, "+/- a couple of years, just guessing".

[fewyearsin]

...art units with reasonable or generous BD (hours per count) have lower attrition.  The example in the comment above of the examiner with 40 years and 5000 allowances is one of those.  I am in a pretty fair BD art unit with an average allowance rate, and IF I stayed 40 years, I'd have ~2500 allowances.  If I could allow twice as many cases, I'd have no problem ever meeting my hours.  As is, I still can get my work done in less than 50 hours a week, which is reasonable to me.

Not only generous BD.  The `80s,`90s and early `00s (pre-Dudas) were much more formulaic in terms of rejection/response.  Get the rejection, add a small amendment with an element not in the cited art, explain why there's no TSM, get allowance. 

If I was going to pick which 30 years I wanted to be an examiner, starting at a time that would end in 2005 would be much preferred over starting at a time that would have me examining now.  If you'd started back then, your allowances would probably be a lot higher over the same 8 years* or so you've been examining.

(Well, hotel program is a big perq of "now", but still).




*Edit to add, "+/- a couple of years, just guessing".

You're close on the number of years.  Couple years as a Primary.

I'd also imagine that being an attorney was easier back then, too, based on the many older partners I worked with who felt like a complete response was 1/2 page that just said "the examiner is wrong."  C'est la vie.

[two banks of four]

Definitely.  Or at least art units with reasonable or generous BD (hours per count) have lower attrition.  The example in the comment above of the examiner with 40 years and 5000 allowances is one of those.  I am in a pretty fair BD art unit with an average allowance rate, and IF I stayed 40 years, I'd have ~2500 allowances.  If I could allow twice as many cases, I'd have no problem ever meeting my hours.  As is, I still can get my work done in less than 50 hours a week, which is reasonable to me.

To the comment about JD examiners having lots of exit options within the PTO - I'm not seeing that anymore.  The Office is now flooded with well qualified (on paper at least) JD examiners, so any opening is flooded with applications.  As far as I can tell, they all go to the senior-most examiners.  I'm not hanging out at the Office for 30 years just for a chance at one of those positions.

Out of curiosity, what is considered to be "reasonable" BD, and what is considered to be an average allowance?  Would BD of 20-25 and 50 allowances/yr considered to be normal?

Right now i'm averaging 1 allowance/biweek (though there are quite a few applications in which I've indicated allowable subject matter in the final office action, some requiring minor changes while others requiring significant changes).  If that were to go up to 2 allowances/biweek, my life would be a lot less stressful.  A while back, in another post, I mentioned someone whose issuance went from 50/year before becoming a primary to 100/year.  That person has a substantially stress-free time at work, with the only stress being how to comply with the sign-in policies.  100 allowances/year would be ~8 counts/biweek.  Even if this person has a BD of 15 hours/2 counts (which I understand to be considered a low number), that's 75% of the workload right there.

[fewyearsin]

Out of curiosity, what is considered to be "reasonable" BD, and what is considered to be an average allowance?  Would BD of 20-25 and 50 allowances/yr considered to be normal?

Right now i'm averaging 1 allowance/biweek (though there are quite a few applications in which I've indicated allowable subject matter in the final office action, some requiring minor changes while others requiring significant changes).  If that were to go up to 2 allowances/biweek, my life would be a lot less stressful.  A while back, in another post, I mentioned someone whose issuance went from 50/year before becoming a primary to 100/year.  That person has a substantially stress-free time at work, with the only stress being how to comply with the sign-in policies.  100 allowances/year would be ~8 counts/biweek.  Even if this person has a BD of 15 hours/2 counts (which I understand to be considered a low number), that's 75% of the workload right there.

BD (adjusted for position) of just under 20, and ~60 allowances a year (that's how I got 40 years times 60 allowances equals ~2500 allowances after 40 years).  After becoming Primary, I became more aggressive in seeking out allowable subject matter and calling up the Applicant.  It saves the whole Final/After Final work when they accept, and I'm getting pretty good at figuring out what kinds of amendments applicants are generally okay with.

[lazyexaminer]

Another data point (though it's about 10 years old) I was around 80-90 allowances per year with approximately 16 hours/BD as a primary. I suppose I was fortunate to be arrogant enough to have no fear of quality review or second pair of eyes. Some of my colleagues seemed terrified of these things...

[steelie]

I average 8 allowances per year.

Some years I get 4-6, and other years 10-12.

On the flip side, I average 40-45 RCES per year.

[two banks of four]

I apologize, as that may have sounded like a broad brush toward people with high allowances in general.  The person of whom I speak represents a unique situation.  This person strongly intimated previous non-compliance with the sign-in and mentioned quitting the job should the tracking becomes more restrictive.  In addition, annual allowance for this person increased 100% after being granted full-sig.  Lastly, other primaries in the art area issues ~60-80 per year (cf. 100/year of this person).  It's really the first two items that don't pass the smell test 

I was rather depressed about things back in November, as I had somehow built up a backlog and was dreading how much faster the hamster wheel would spin when I am granted full-sig.  So I looked up issuance of the primaries I know, that this person's record from the year prior to grant of full-sig to the first year with full-sig (which I presume included cases allowed while on the program) stood out.

[lazyexaminer]

It's hard to compare different areas at the office. Many arts never have 101 problems, some have them in every case. Same with, say, 112(f), which nowadays it seems like the Office wants me to spend all my time analyzing.

It also can be a huge deal no longer having someone sign your work. Around my second year I got a brand new SPE. Suddenly nothing was allowable and nothing was appealable, I was far closer to steelie's 8 allowances per year and writing 4 non-finals in seemingly every case. He was eventually removed and things went back to normal, but suddenly allowing more as a primary doesn't automatically mean something's wrong (not saying that most SPEs are that bad, but still). I guess I just figure if examiner is allowing things he shouldn't that's quality review's job to worry about.

[steelie]

I went to this meeting one time, and there were examiners from different units.

People asked around, "What's your hours/bd?"

I remember, a photographic examiner (maybe copyright examiner) saying they get like 12 hours/bd and I thought, "Whoa, this job must be hell for you".

Then one explained that their "examination" only requires "skimming photos". 

[Tobmapsatonmi]

I don't think there are copyright examiners, and even if there were, they wouldn't be at the USPTO.  Copyright office is in the Library of Congress.

Maybe you were talking to someone who examines design patents?

[steelie]

I don't think there are copyright examiners, and even if there were, they wouldn't be at the USPTO.  Copyright office is in the Library of Congress.

Maybe you were talking to someone who examines design patents?

could be.

It was a long time ago.

[steelie]

I don't think there are copyright examiners, and even if there were, they wouldn't be at the USPTO.  Copyright office is in the Library of Congress.

Maybe you were talking to someone who examines design patents?

could be.

It was a long time ago.

At the time I didn't even know what "design patent examiner" meant.

She was brought it up  to poke fun at other examiners.

Hey, "you guys get too much time. I'm only get like 12 hours/bd". Hahahaha.

Wow so that's a job. mostly only look at "Designs". Wow.

[snapshot]

How you are still at the PTO boggles the mind, steelie.

[steelie]

How you are still at the PTO boggles the mind, steelie.

no OT, no bonuses, 95% , had oral, and written warnings, burn vacation to make production, and used "red zone" a few times

that's what it takes to do high quality work, and still make it a reasonable job

[fewyearsin]

How you are still at the PTO boggles the mind, steelie.

I worked in patent prosecution before I joined the PTO, and many of my regular contacts at the PTO did also.  So I forget that there are people examining at the PTO who started with no idea what a patent is or what the laws are or how they are used by businesses.  Many of those examiners, years later, still have a fairly limited idea what a patent is, what the laws are, and where patents fit into a business plan.  Not a judgment, per se, but more of an observation.