Intellectual Property Forum The Intellectual Property Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

We are looking for moderators.  Message the admin if interested.

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 ... 10
 21 
 on: 06-22-18 at 10:16 pm 
Started by JTripodo - Last post by abc123
Agreed.

I once did an informal study, where I put examiners names in Lexis, and had it show me which of their patents were litigated. It is quite easy to do this. What was interesting was the "good" examiners had far fewer of their patents litigated than the "lousy" examiners.

Last year there was a Federal Circuit decision involving a patent in the subject area I once examined, a rather complicated subject matter. I remember thinking that the examiner who issued it probably caused untold millions of dollars in attorney fees by doing such a lousy job, and in fairness, I don't always blame the examiners for invalidly issued patents. Anyway, when I looked at the name of the person who issued it, I almost laughed out loud, since I knew them personally, and I remembered that he/she was someone who I considered to be horribly incompetent, to the point it was almost funny.

 22 
 on: 06-22-18 at 09:13 pm 
Started by JTripodo - Last post by WTF
Been stalking for a while.

My 2C:

Iíve been involved in training and quality at the PTO for sometime now.  I would say 30%-40% of examiners are just downright terrible.  The worst part about it is that many of those examiners can be good examiners, but the lack of any type of accountability has led them to be bad examiners.  Itís as much the SPEs fault as it is the examiners. 

The stuff Iíve seen would make you either laugh or cry.

One time my boss told me we had to cut X amount of dollars in OT in a workgroup because of lack of new cases. 

I straight up told him I would give 20 names of examiners in that workgroup to fire right now, and that would more than solve the problem.

I remember him looking at me not being able to tell if I was serious or joking. I was serious.

Solution: You immediately fire 10% of examiners (the worst ones).  Everyone knows who they are.  Itís not a secret. The remaining 20%-30% would improve their performance the next bi-week.

Iím not talking about firing people who are struggling.  We can work with them to make them better.  We should even give more examining time to the units. 

Iím talking about examiners that have work quality that is so terrible, they are either incompetent or lazy.  Iím talking about the ones you canít get ahold of for 3 days straight.  Iím talking about the ones who work 20 hours a week, but claim 40.  Iím talking about the ones who miss every meeting an always have an excuse. These are the examiners that everyone roles their eyes when their name comes up. 

Itís completely unfair that many great examiners have their names tarnished because of the bad examiners.

I should add that Iíve spent years reviewing work and training examiners.  So, spare me the BS about how hard the job is and how there is not enough time to do the work.  We all know who you are and how terrible your work product is.  We know you donít work 40 hours a week, no matter what your WebTA says. We know your name, and your name comes up in EVERY conversation about quality.  We constantly talk about how to get rid of you because of your lack of quality and/or your inability to simply show up to work.  We talk about the day when a new director will allow us to fire you for cause. That day will come.  And when it does, we will pull out our list of names and finally get rid of you.

The majority of examiners do just fine.  The problem is you, and not the job.

As of now, you have a great pension, great 401K, great befits, etc., etc.  If you donít want to work for it, feel free to get a job at McDonaldís or beg for money on the corner.

Anyways, Iím just saying......

Let the arguments start.

 23 
 on: 06-22-18 at 09:04 pm 
Started by EagerDrafter - Last post by EagerDrafter
> why are you attempting to obtain a patent

I enjoy the craft. Odd, but true.

 24 
 on: 06-22-18 at 08:59 pm 
Started by EagerDrafter - Last post by EagerDrafter
Ok, to add perspective (if it matters) I am an inventor to dozens of patents which drafted by an agent. In a few patents I had drafted the claims myself and they were reviewed and edited. I have also provided technical input to claim construction in a few cases. But I am now learning how to draft my own claims. This forum has been very helpful. Makes sense?

 25 
 on: 06-22-18 at 06:51 pm 
Started by JTripodo - Last post by two banks of four
New here. Read the last dozen pages of comments. I'm a burned out patent and trademark lawyer looking at options. I have a lot of questions:

1. What are my realistic options at the PTO (patent and trademark) as a JD and how hard would it be to achieve including getting hired and promoted?
As in what positions?

It seems that you are talking about examiner positions, but there are also trademark examining attorney, APJs, and a few other different places to which you could apply (e.g. solicitor's office).

Not sure if there really is that much promotion potential for PTAB (you could become the chief judge) and the other positions.  For examiners, you can be promoted up to GS14.

I'd think you'd be more than qualified to be an examiner, but that's no guarantee that you'll be selected.
Quote
2. I can imagine the mind-numbing work but how's it compare to prosecution? Not in hours, but in the mental health toll the work itself takes.
Can't comment on the lifestyle of a APJ or someone working in the solicitor's office.  Then again, I presume you want to know about mental health of examiners, as you inquired about mind-numbing work.  An examiner's mental health will largely depend how nurturing the examiner's supervisor is.  I have been very fortunate not to have anyone sabotaging my effort, taking an blasť attitude when defending my work, or engaging in various other antisocial behaviors that would be detrimental to my career.  While this is how things should be, it's not always how things actually are, and I know of first hand examples where supervisors/primaries conspired against their subordinates.

As for myself, search for a thread I started in the fall of last year re: wanting to explore the greener pastures.  While my supervisors hold me in high regard, and while I received quite positive remarks from others re: how I approach my work and the effort I put in, I am seriously thinking about how I can care less so that I don't burn myself out.  This doesn't come from mind-numbing work (whether or not it's mind-numbing is an afterthought most of the time), but more from the time crunch imposed.

If you have good supervisors, you don't ever need to make and defend BS arguments like the numerous ones I have seen recently.  I had one practitioner argue against evidentiary references I cited as if I cited the reference to modify the primary reference.  Both the 1.111 and 1.116 responses are four pages of strawman arguments.  Sometimes I wonder how bad it is that one have to write up logical fallacies one after another just to appease the client, but then I lose any empathy when I remember that while the practitioner can bill for the BS 1.116 response, I get paid nothing to address these responses.  If the practitioner is so confident of being right, then by all means file the damn appeal brief and I'll file my answer, so I don't have to respond to the 1.116 response and then again to the appeal brief...
Quote
3. What are my options if I wanted to stay in or move back to NY?

Examiners and APJs can hotel.  I think the PTO has temporary permission to continue to accept new participants, but not sure how long the program will last

Quote
4. I haven't seen or interacted with many older people at the PTO which is concerning. Is that something to be concerned about?

Probably just the luck of the draw.  Then again, the examiners who do well probably moved up from the examining corps. 
Quote
5. Any other downsides compared to firm work besides the pay and possibly boredom?

Congress and/or the president clamoring to cut your pensions, give you a pay cut (by not giving you COLA adjustment), and who knows what else.

--------------------------------

Now that I've answered your question, could you expound on what caused the burn out?  How many years in are you, and how much is your annual billable hour?  How many of your peers are contemplating similar moves?

 26 
 on: 06-22-18 at 04:22 pm 
Started by EagerDrafter - Last post by midwestengineer
I'm professionally quite familiar with invention analysis, but claims drafting is another story.

Do you mean that you are a litigator and know how claims are interpreted but do not have experience drafting claims?

 27 
 on: 06-22-18 at 04:19 pm 
Started by EagerDrafter - Last post by midwestengineer
Thoughts for a budget conscious pro-se filer with probably a reasonably good grasp of invention analysis?

I personally believe that drafting is an art that can only be learned through the fire of patent prosecution under the mentoring of experienced prosecutors.  The problem that all of the books have is that they do not provide the predictive element.  That is, providing you with the ability to predict how various types of claims will likely be interpreted.

If you are budget conscious, the better question is to ask yourself why are you attempting to obtain a patent?  If you have limited funds, there are a multitude of vastly more important business uses for your funds.

So, why are you trying to obtain a patent?

 28 
 on: 06-22-18 at 03:56 pm 
Started by JTripodo - Last post by getmeout
New here. Read the last dozen pages of comments. I'm a burned out patent and trademark lawyer looking at options. I have a lot of questions:

1. What are my realistic options at the PTO (patent and trademark) as a JD and how hard would it be to achieve including getting hired and promoted?

2. I can imagine the mind-numbing work but how's it compare to prosecution? Not in hours, but in the mental health toll the work itself takes.

3. What are my options if I wanted to stay in or move back to NY?

4. I haven't seen or interacted with many older people at the PTO which is concerning. Is that something to be concerned about?

5. Any other downsides compared to firm work besides the pay and possibly boredom?

Thank you.

 29 
 on: 06-22-18 at 01:45 pm 
Started by novobarro - Last post by fewyearsin
Most likely the Examiner just copy/pasted the old rejection, conclusion and signature block included, and made a few changes based on your amendments.

BUT, having that language in the text of the Office Action is what controls (per a recent office refresher training to examiners). 

Of course, by all accounts it shouldn't be a final.

BUT, you're better off making that 5 minute phone call to get something on the record.  The Examiner might "forget" in the next 3 months, and consider your next response as an after final.

 30 
 on: 06-22-18 at 01:29 pm 
Started by novobarro - Last post by smgsmc
Pair indicates Non-Final.  I'm thinking, no need to call Examiner and maybe include remarks in the response.
When faced with a similar situation (several times) in the past, I've gone 3putt's route:  I called the Examiner to clarify the correct status and asked him to file an Interview Summary on the record.  I think that's safe and expedient.

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 ... 10


Footer

www.intelproplaw.com

Terms of Use
Feel free to contact us:
Sorry, spam is killing us.

iKnight Technologies Inc.

www.intelproplaw.com

Page created in 0.11 seconds with 18 queries.