The Intellectual Property Forum

   I'm becoming such a curmudgeon in my dottage.

NJ and Fliptop – are you both seriously suggesting that tens and possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars in non-dischargeable debt is no big deal?  Or that 3-4 years that they would put career and/or life on hold is no big deal and shouldn’t be seriously considered?  If it’s no big deal and everyone should just go with their gut and things will turn out okay...I’m sure one or both of you would be happy to co-sign astrojudo’s law school loans if he or she decides to go to law school. 

Even night school is a huge risk, especially at full tuition at a place like GWU or Fordham, it would be $130,000 borrowed, but interest accrual means that the actual loan amount at graduation may be closer to $140,000 or $150,000.  Even if someone can afford to pay that out-of-pocket, that’s still a lot of money for the right to sit for a bar that's not even necessary for purely patent prosecution work.

Plus, night school + job is just bearable for a single person with low stress 9-5 job, it’s painful if you have a stressful job or is trying to stay married, and complete misery if you have young children.  And your school performance may suffer compared to classmates who are not working or working parttime.

Astrojudo – you’re correct in observing that even Ph.D + experience may not be enough now.  I know a few Ph.Ds with a decade or more of BigLaw IP experience who been forced out and now work as solos.  I also know a few otherl BigLaw Ph.Ds who jumped back into the PTO because it’s perceived as a safe harbor in this economic environment.  Others are hanging in there, but stories of decreasing price per application and less total business from existing clients are common. 

Take a look at these two enormous threads I linked to below to see how competitive the IP prosecution job market is becoming.  Lots of Chem/Bio Ph.D + JDs are being rejected for patent examiner positions – those jobs used to be for stepping stones to law firm jobs.  Things may change in the future, but the trendlines are not good and things are pretty grim right now.

http://just-n-examiner.livejournal.com/51159.html

http://www.intelproplaw.com/ip_forum/index.php/topic,1421.5310.html

What?  The car allowance can only be used on BMWs?  Better call up HR and demand that they widen the choices to Porsches and Maseratis.  There's really no point in working for an employer who only gives you a BMW.

If you can secure a full UChicago scholarship or tuition paid patent agent position for OP in Chicago, I will be most happy to agree that you're 100% right about everything, and OP should send in a deposit for class of 2015 immediately.

Wait, the PTO is both a "one way ticket to numptyland" and a stepping stone for some very respectable practitioners?  Wouldn't the latter suggest that going to the PTO is not such a dead end for a first job?  I also recall that Klav eventually got tired of BigLaw hours and even considered going back to the PTO.  That certainly suggests that reasonable people with personal knowledge of both life styles can chose being an examiner with a life outside of work, over being a prestigious BigLaw lawyer with BigLaw hours.

And that's not even taking into account the huge amount of non-dischargeable debt now needed to fund a top law degree.  I believe the two attorneys you mentioned worked parttime in law school and got tuition paid for by their employers - that's not an option for OP anymore.  That debt will be around even if OP discovers, at the end of a prestigious summer associateship, that he or she hates the practice of law the fire of a thousand dying suns.  That debt will be around if the legal industry implodes and only YLS grads can get jobs.  That debt, even in a best case scenario, will take 5 years of BigLaw or 10 years of PSLF (note that the PTO doesn't offer any loan forgiveness programs) to pay off.

This is not to say that OP can't decide a year from now that he or she really wants patent litigation.  If anything, a year or two of experience at the PTO will distinguish him or her from the generic straight-to-law-school 25 year old JD.

Look around these boards and you'll find quite a few bright, articulate examiners who decided "numptyland" and having a life outside of work is not so bad, compared to a massive debt and the uncertainties of the legal job market.  I don't understand why you must deride and mock their career choices.

PS - GS-7 qualify for two accelerated (6 months) promotions to GS-9 and GS-11, so where you start off doesn't dramatically affect your pay after a year or two.  GS-7 pay won't pay for the insane GWU or GULC tuition, but GS-14 pay can if you live frugally.  I've seen successful BigLaw attorneys come out of American, Catholic, and GMU, so don't discount those schools if they provide a big enough scholarship.

I think law school grades are more about luck and being able to study smart, than studying hard.  A day spent going over a professor's old exam/sample answers and outlines created by law review editors is worth more than a month of outlining textbooks.  It's tough to work and go to school at the same time, but it is possible to do if you're single or have a very supportive spouse.

The PTO no longer reimburses for law school tuition.  I doubt it ever will again, given the number of JD/PhDs scrambling to get in.  I haven't heard of any law firm tuition reimbursements for the past two years, though perhaps that's still available for exceptional candidates or at cheap schools. 

I highly recommend taking the PTO position and deferring.  You'll lose very little and you may gain much by doing so.

If you find out that you like being an examiner and don't want to be a patent lawyer, then you can enjoy a job with a great work-life balance and GS-14/15 pay in 4-5 years (about $125-140K per year, or up to $155K with overtime - working far fewer total hours than at law firms) without the hassle and expense of more school. Successful patent litigators can earn far more than that - but they also work very very hard and be very lucky to get to that point.

If you decide you don't like law at all, then quit the PTO and do something else, and be thankful that you didn't spend $200-250K + three years of your life chasing after something you don't even want.

If you like working at the PTO but still want to be a lawyer, then you can go to school parttime in one of five area law schools.  Good grades from GULC or GWU will open similar patent law doors as T6, except perhaps Chicago WRT legal academia.  It's tough but you can get out with significantly less debt and have the option of continuing at the PTO if patent law doesn't pan out.

Even if you end up hating the PTO and leaving for law school - you're still getting patent law experience that can help distinguish you and help you get 1L and 2L summer jobs.

2 things to keep in your mind when making your career decision - you can ignore this if you come from a rich and well connected family because this won't apply to you:

$200-250K nondischargeable debt that you'll likely accumulate for the T6 dream school will be paid back with after tax dollars.  Even if you're being paid $160K+bonus, it'll likely take 5+ years of frugal living that pay that amount back.  If you're unlucky (quite likely since most BigLaw first years don't last 5+ years) and can't keep a BigLaw job for 5+ years, you may be in a very unhappy place indeed.

U.S. law schools and law industry is just starting to deal with the reality of too many heavily indebted lawyers chasing too few (and likely to be fewer in time, due to structural changes such as automation and outsourcing) jobs.  This overcrowding is happening in patent law just as it is elsewhere - you can read here about all the disaffected engineers and Ph.Ds looking to get out of academic/industry.  And it's affecting CCN grads too - take a look at comments from Paul Campos's latest post - recent Columbia and NYU 3L/grads are estimating 30-40% unemployment at graduation for their classes.