Working for the USPTO

[fewyearsin]

If anyone is struggling at GS-7 or 9 or even 11....get out before its too late and you have no useful engineering skills left.

This.  Being an Examiner at the USPTO is a very unique career path.  It has no branches.  You become an examiner, and can get promoted to do more examination in less time, until you are a Primary. Then you dead end.  Further career options are pretty limited.  Maybe become a SPE.  Maybe get a law degree and try for PTAB, Petitions, Office of Solicitor, or some of the other JD-required jobs at the PTO.  But I can't really think of any outside, non-PTO job that being an examiner prepares you for.  In most cases, if/when you leave, you are starting over.  So if you are not ready to commit fewer than 2, or more than 10 years to the PTO, best get to gettin'.

[ThomasPaine]

"The situation you are describing is similar to the way it was in the mid to late nineties, when you would send a case to the board with perfect art, and the judges would tell you to allow it."

The Board does not tell examiners to allow a case.  The Board decides if the rejections meet the legal requirements.  You should know that. If you don't/didn't, now you do.

"I saw some attorneys take advantage of this by listing perfect or near perfect art on their IDS, and then appeal your rejection no matter how good it was, knowing they had a very high probability of winning."

Not sure how this is "taking advantage."  Applicants do try to submit what they regard as the closest prior art that they are aware of.  If they are aware of the closest prior art and write their claims to define over it, they expect them to be allowed.  And of course, they write them to be "as close to the line" of patentability as they can.  That's what patent practitioners get paid to do. 

Practitioners assess the chances on appeal based on the merits of each case.  The Board has had an "affirm at all costs" mentality for as long as I can remember.  And I was an examiner for 9+ years and have been practicing for 18+ years.  That was true when the Board was essentially 100% lifers, and it remains true even with all the outside hiring the Board has done in the past 6-7 years.  All competent practitioners take that into account when deciding whether to appeal and whether the appeal will be successful.

My experience is that examiners don't understand why they get reversed because 1) they don't understand the law, 2) don't want to understand the law, and 3) don't learn from the reversals.  I get examiners reversed, or force them to re-open, repeatedly and the next case of mine that ends up on their docket has the exact same garbage rejections (e.g. "design choice," "inherency," boilerplate case law, etc.) made.  Why?  Because it's easier to issue garbage rejections, get the counts, hope for tickets on the RCE gravy train, and get promotions and bonuses than it is to do the job correctly.  That's not the examiners' fault.  They are rational actors.  Their PAP does not provide any incentive to do the job correctly. So they don't.

[steelie]

My take is that examining is the premier job; it's like early retirement.

You can work in a recliner where you can stretch your legs out and lean back. I push my recliner underneath my work table.

Amazon streaming, XFINITY streaming is pretty much constantly on.

Occasionally visit chess.com, and play a game of chess.

Occasionally play PS4 games like Dark Souls, or Call of Duty that allow for quick multi-player matches to interrupt the monotonous paperwork.

Back to movies/tv series ... and monotonous paperwork.

Take the dog for a walk.

Play some online blackjack, at a virtual casino site, then back to the paperwork.

Occasionally visit philosophy/science forums and participate in debate.

Sometimes I will work 24 hours straight, and watch several seasons of a series.

Right now, the new rental, "The Hitman's Bodyguard" is going to help me do a few hours of work.

It's the mindless nature of the job that makes it great! 

[openpatent]

My take is that examining is the premier job; it's like early retirement.

You can work in a recliner where you can stretch your legs out and lean back. I push my recliner underneath my work table.

Amazon streaming, XFINITY streaming is pretty much constantly on.

Occasionally visit chess.com, and play a game of chess.

Occasionally play PS4 games like Dark Souls, or Call of Duty that allow for quick multi-player matches to interrupt the monotonous paperwork.

Back to movies/tv series ... and monotonous paperwork.

Take the dog for a walk.

Play some online blackjack, at a virtual casino site, then back to the paperwork.

Occasionally visit philosophy/science forums and participate in debate.

Sometimes I will work 24 hours straight, and watch several seasons of a series.

Right now, the new rental, "The Hitman's Bodyguard" is going to help me do a few hours of work.

It's the mindless nature of the job that makes it great! 

Try that with the new Rsp monitoring 😇

[fewyearsin]

My take is that examining is the premier job; it's like early retirement.

You can work in a recliner where you can stretch your legs out and lean back. I push my recliner underneath my work table.

Amazon streaming, XFINITY streaming is pretty much constantly on.

Occasionally visit chess.com, and play a game of chess.

Occasionally play PS4 games like Dark Souls, or Call of Duty that allow for quick multi-player matches to interrupt the monotonous paperwork.

Back to movies/tv series ... and monotonous paperwork.

Take the dog for a walk.

Play some online blackjack, at a virtual casino site, then back to the paperwork.

Occasionally visit philosophy/science forums and participate in debate.

Sometimes I will work 24 hours straight, and watch several seasons of a series.

Right now, the new rental, "The Hitman's Bodyguard" is going to help me do a few hours of work.

It's the mindless nature of the job that makes it great! 

I don't know about the rest of the people on this board, but I plan to do much more with my retirement than sit in a recliner watching shows, surfing the net, and playing video games.

[Feta Cheese]

I don't know about the rest of the people on this board, but I plan to do much more with my retirement than sit in a recliner watching shows, surfing the net, and playing video games.

That's why he said it's like early retirement. Doubt you could find another job for steelie where he could do that while working full time for six figures

[lazyexaminer]

Try that with the new Rsp monitoring 😇

https://giphy.com/gifs/simpsons-dippy-bird-drinking-l41lUJ1YoZB1lHVPG

[abc123]

I don't know about the rest of the people on this board, but I plan to do much more with my retirement than sit in a recliner watching shows, surfing the net, and playing video games.

Doubt you could find another job for steelie where he could do that while working full time for six figures

But what happens when he is forced to find a job where you actually have to think, and finds he no longer can?

Lazy examiner, that is pretty funny. I know an examiner in a chemical art who makes that duck look sophisticated by comparison.

Steelie, the only movie I can think of that relates to examining is Metropolis, and that's because when I did it I felt like the guy in the movie in front of the giant wheel forming the circuit connections.

[steelie]

I don't know about the rest of the people on this board, but I plan to do much more with my retirement than sit in a recliner watching shows, surfing the net, and playing video games.

Doubt you could find another job for steelie where he could do that while working full time for six figures

But what happens when he is forced to find a job a real thinking job and finds he no longer can?

Lazy examiner, that is pretty funny. I know an examiner in a chemical art who makes that duck look sophisticated by comparison.

Steelie, the only movie I can think of that relates to examining is Metropolis, and that's because when I did it I felt like the guy in the movie in front of the giant wheel forming the circuit connections.

It would be a hard transition for sure.

I equate examining to the game "What remains of Edith Finch" ... where a character works at a fish cannery cutting off fish heads ...

the work is very monotonous .. fish comes in .. chop off head .. then another fish ... chop off head .... repeat ...

The character tries to make the job more exciting by mentally removing himself from the job, and simultaneously imagining that job is part of some overall greater adventure.

That's what I do.

here it is : https://www.theverge.com/2017/3/24/15042182/what-remains-of-edith-finch-preview-interview

[abc123]

I liked to think examining is like the movie "the sting" except that instead of fooling card players or people at a race track, examiners fool as many attorneys as possible into thinking their case was allowable, then wham them with some more prior art to get as many RCE's as possible. Sort of like, to use your fish example, hanging as many fish on a line as possible, except the fish are sucker fish, and they don't taste very good.

[steelie]

I don't know about the rest of the people on this board, but I plan to do much more with my retirement than sit in a recliner watching shows, surfing the net, and playing video games.

I'm very introverted.

[rodya]

"The situation you are describing is similar to the way it was in the mid to late nineties, when you would send a case to the board with perfect art, and the judges would tell you to allow it."

The Board does not tell examiners to allow a case.  The Board decides if the rejections meet the legal requirements.  You should know that. If you don't/didn't, now you do.
.

I agree.....but the realities of the office sometimes are different. If the Board overturns my rejection I allow. If I think the board is wrong, I allow. If I think there is a 103, I allow.
I am not allowed, I mean NOT allowed to reject unless I have a spot on 102 and then I need to convince my SPE who then has to convince the TC director.  In my TC reopening or appealing the board is not even something we talk about thinking about.  Is it right? No. Is the reality? Yes.

[snapshot]

Try that with the new Rsp monitoring 😇

https://giphy.com/gifs/simpsons-dippy-bird-drinking-l41lUJ1YoZB1lHVPG

This .gif is part of why RSP exists.  Or did you forget the WaPo articles already?

[Feta Cheese]

I'm not sure why y'all think RSP won't allow someone who works in the manner steelie described from continuing to do so.

[lazyexaminer]

The rsp detects when you're logged in, and the drinking bird will prevent those annoying automatic log outs for no activity, no?

I agree with feta that if someone wants to game the system they'll be able to. It may be harder than before but still doable.