EE: Bachelors or Masters?

[T_Hill]

I am walking an unusual patent path, because I got a bachelor's in business administration, THEN went to law school, THEN decided I wanted to be a patent attorney. So I am only now getting my technical degree.

When I have been approaching schools about getting an EE bachelor's degree, many have recommended that I go the Master's route, claiming that it will take less time, cost less money, and provide me with a higher degree. They say that, since I already have a bachelor's and a JD, that I should not "go backwards."

However, I have also read, and the college's have mentioned, that EE master's programs generally tend to be geared toward preparing the student for a doctorate program, rather than giving him much hands-on experience. I don't plan on going the PhD route, nor do I plan on being an engineer, so that doesn't sound attractive to me. In fact, one of the advisers I spoke with recommended that, when applying to the master's program, I NOT mention that I want to be a patent attorney, because the review board wants applicants that are "in it for the long haul" (that is, going on to the PhD program and then to being engineers). Again, not attractive.

So has anyone else been down this path or know someone who has? If not, general thoughts? Wouldn't I want to be as hands-on as possible and less research-oriented? I can't imagine how an EE thesis would help in a patent job.

[Andrewsons]

yes i agree with you! and I can't imagine how an EE thesis would help in a patent job too!

[landonew]

You will have a long road ahead regardless of the path you choose to take.  Honestly (speaking as a EE) it is extremelly unlikely that you will be able to survive a masters EE classload without the undergraduate background.  In other words, you will be in a class with people who have 2-3 years of uper level EE classes (Digital signal processing, microcontrollers, feedback systems, electromagnetics I & II).  Many MEs/CEs have sucesfully completed a EE masters without the advanced course work, but rememeber they are engineers and have at least been exposed to some of the principals in their own discipline. 

Not trying to discourage you, just trying to let you know what your in for.  Graduate level EE courses are demanding for electrical engineers, I could not imagine how frusterating it would be for someone without an engineering background.  I would strongly encourage you to pursue the undergraduate degree.  It can be done in less time than you think.  I finished mine in 3 calander years. 


That being said, regardless of which path you choose you will need to take a fair amount of prerequistes.
6 hours of physics (calculus based)
9-12 hours of calculus (depending on what credits you already have)

While 15-18 hours doesn't sound like alot, it takes a fair bit of time do to the prerequisite structure.  Could probably get it done in 1 year or so if your took classes during both summer sessions (cal I(fall), Cal II(spring), Cal III(sum. 1), Differential Equations (Sum. II). 
EDIT, I don't recall if Cal III and Diff-E-Q are the same class.   

Then again, the schools you apply for may have a special program for someone in your position.  Good luck.

[Upnorthguy]

You should look at the requirements for a BS or MS at the schools you are considering.

I have a materials science degree and just out of curiousity, looked at a local university webpage to see what I would need to get a master's in EE.  This school required that you have ALL the undegrad EE courses completed.  Obviously, unless you already have your BS in EE, that would be a huge pile of classes to take, not including the additional classes required at the master's level.  Also, I think every master's level EE class you would take will have a prerequisite of a lower EE class...which you don't have.

I believe getting a master's in EE would be a good (cheaper/faster) option for someone that already has the math and physics out of the way, but for a business admin person, I don't think a master's out of the gate is a possibility.

Also, for masters in engineering, there are two types of master's: plan A and plan B.   If I remember correctly (I don't have a master's, but I remember looking into it about 8 years ago) plan A is the thesis type of master's and plan B is a practical type of program.  You sound like a plan B person.  Again, check with prospective schools.  The requirements for master's should be online.

[shmoo]

Before you sign up for any program, check the General Requirements Bulletin of the USPTO.

As far as I can make out, as far as qualifying for the exam goes, they don't care a fig about advanced degrees.

They want to know what you took as an undergraduate.

If you want an advanced degree, it would be about your future employer, not the USPTO.

Alternatively, if you want an advanced degree, look at the GRB and figure out what subset of an undergraduate degree is needful to make the application.  Odds are good that it is necessary background for an EE Masters anyway (landonew's listing is similar to what I remember in the GRB, for instance). 

I also agree that EE is not a program where you can come in "cold" from some other discipline.

[smgsmc]

Shmoo is correct.  A couple of years ago I had discussed advanced degrees with OED.  They confirmed that if you have a PhD in physics but a BS in economics (for example) you will not automatically qualify for the patent bar under Cat A.  You need to demonstrate that your grad course work satisfies the required undergrad course requirements.  Bizarre, isn't it?  If you are interested in getting a technical degree *solely* to qualify for the exam, check whether you can take non-degree courses.

[T_Hill]

You guys are saving me a headache, I thank you! When I'm speaking with the schools, they don't seem to quite "get it." They see everything in black and white and don't understand that I have ZERO engineering experience. Since I'm in an unusual situation, they don't know what to do with me.

So based on what you've said, I am going with the bachelor's. And I really don't see any other way, now that you mention it. I would get raped and pillaged in graduate level engineering courses. When I explained this to a counselor at USD, she admitted that her husband was in EE, that he is very smart, and he is having trouble with the undergrad courses.

So yeah, it will be a long road. But it will be ok.

As for what schmoo and smgsmc were saying, wow! I don't understand it, but I'm glad you told me. That is something that no college in this area would tell me. And it's definitely not something intuitive; I would never imagine that the GRB would be ok with a bachelor's but NOT a master's from the same program.

This is posted elsewhere too, but anyone who is reading this post and is curious, here is a link to the GRB: http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/dcom/olia/oed/grb.pdf

[MYK]

As for what schmoo and smgsmc were saying, wow! I don't understand it, but I'm glad you told me. That is something that no college in this area would tell me. And it's definitely not something intuitive; I would never imagine that the GRB would be ok with a bachelor's but NOT a master's from the same program.

The schools aren't going to have a clue about obscure requirements of a government bureaucracy.  It's not like a lot of people go get an engineering degree just so they can become patent attorneys.