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Author Topic: continued from previous post  (Read 1359 times)

john6422

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continued from previous post
« on: 09-30-08 at 02:42 pm »

In a nutshell, I come up with this great idea of cheese in pretzel sticks and pretzel companies would have never made these if it weren't for me coming up with this idea.  This is a multi-million dollar idea that will add millions to the bottom line of pretzel companies who decide to make cheese filled pretzel sticks, so of course I would like a little compensation for coming up with this idea which leads to my question.   Would my idea of cheese filled pretzel sticks make me millions or would the three or four pretzel companies out there just run with my idea  after being advised by their attorneys that this idea has no grounds for a patent?   My gut tells me these pretzel companies could run with my idea and I would have no recourse in terms of getting compensation.   On the other hand, my gut tells me if I hadn't thought of this idea there would have never been cheese filled pretzel sticks that pretzel companies will go on to make millions with, so therefore I should be able to get some sort of patent and legally enforce these pretzel companies to compensate me for my idea.   

If this idea were unpatentable the leverage I believe I would have would be approach the four major pretzel companies one by one about this idea.   For example, I approach pretzel company A and present the idea to them first with the agreement if they purchase the rights to this idea of cheese filled pretzel sticks I will not contact pretzel company B, C, or D about licensing this product or buying the patent rights.  In other words, even though I might not be able to obtain a patent I might still be able to capitalize off of my cheese filled pretzel stick idea by giving the first company I approach to have the opportunity to get to the market first and therefore build customer loyalty and grab market share months ahead of the competition.   This to me would seem valuable in itself to Pretzel company "A" to pay me x amount of dollars to keep this idea out of the competitions' hands even though cheese filled pretzel sticks might have no shot at getting a patent because of the vast amount of market share and customer loyalty they could grab by being first to market.   

I would appreciate any comments or answers to whether or not  I would be able to get a patent for my hypothetical invention of my cheese filled pretzel sticks back in 1980.   Furthermore, would my argument of why is everyone doing it now after I showed them the idea be solid grounds for arguing why I should get a patent?   If this wouldn't be patentable is my strategy of offering Company A first shot at this idea a common strategy to get a company to pay up for an idea to keep it out of the hands of the compettion?   If this wasn't patentable it just seems like an injustice if someone comes up with a phenomenal idea like cheese filled pretzel sticks and someone can just run with it without comepensating the person who invented the idea.

Thanks for any help on this matter!!!
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Wolfcastle

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Re: continued from previous post
« Reply #1 on: 10-01-08 at 08:40 am »

Cheese filled pretzel sticks...hmm, does anyone else remember a cheese filled pretzel stick called Combos? they were really good, but I haven't seen them in a long time. Wikipedia says they were invited in the 1970s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combos
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landonew

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Re: continued from previous post
« Reply #2 on: 10-07-08 at 09:40 am »

You are refering to what is commonly known as a "trade secret."  Good idea, but there exists a Few potential problems. 

How apparent is the idea?  For example, in your cheese pretzel scenario.  Once Company B sees Company A put cheese in the pretzel, they will soon follow suite if the cheesy pretzle is commercially succesful.  Put differently, trade secrets are only valuable to those who possess them if they are easily concealable.  Example, Coca-Cola's "secret formula" is one of the most famous trade secrets.  The method in which it is made is difficult to reverse engineer (for reasons unknown to non-chemists). 

Secondly, What happens if Company A doesn't bite?  Then your "trade secret" is worthless because Company B is not going to pay you for a trade secret that its competitor already knows about.  Try to come up with a way around this.  Is there anyway you can give the company a "taste" of your idea without disclosing the method for reducing it to practice???  For instance, if you were selling a secret forumla for a new soft drink then you could allow them to access a sufficient sample to conduct market testing. 


Hope that helps.   
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CriterionD

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Re: continued from previous post
« Reply #3 on: 10-07-08 at 05:39 pm »



Secondly, What happens if Company A doesn't bite?  Then your "trade secret" is worthless because Company B is not going to pay you for a trade secret that its competitor already knows about. 

Its no longer a "trade secret" after the secret material has been disclosed to anybody without an effective non-disclosure agreement in place.  If Company A signed a non-disclosure then its as if they don't know about it.  Of course, why does Company A agree to sign a protective non-disclosure agreement when you do not have a patent, are not promising a license, and  signing the agreement may potentially give you legal recourse if they decide to compete with you down the line?  Thats at least what it may feel like from their perspective, and thats why many companies won't bother with NDAs.  The phrase "trade secret," here, is somewhat besides the point.

To finally answer the OP, in this situation anything might be possible, but your best option might be to seek employment at one of these companies, and get yourself in a position to pitch the product idea and take credit for it in-house.  Or you could just submit the idea to a relevant executive anyway, and be upfront that you have no legal recourse if they were to take your idea and run with it.  Worst case, you can hope for good karma.

Of course, you could also keep your ideas secret and decide to attract investors and/or go into business for yourself. 

But I assume you already realize that.  In any event, generally, if you truly do have a 'phenomenal' invention, it should usually be patentable unless you screw something up. 

john6422

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Thanks for all the answers, just a quick follow up
« Reply #4 on: 10-09-08 at 07:31 pm »

Thanks for all the kind people who responded to my post.   I did learn alot from everyone who posted here and I just have one area where I still have questions.  When you say you need "an enabling disclosure providing enough information for someone in the pretzel business to make cheese filled pretzels", I'm not quite sure how this would work.   For example, in my scenario one person wouldn't sit there all day and fold some pretzel dough around a piece of cheese, but instead some type of machinery would be handling the process to presumbably make thousands of cheese filled pretzel sticks a day.  Once again, this reverts back to my original write up where I state that I have no tool and die or machinery background, but I just have this phenomenal idea of frozen pretzel sticks with cheese in them.   I guess what I'm alluding to would a sketch of how an individual would go about making a cheese filled pretzel stick suffice, even though the pretzel manufactures that might license the idea would for obvious reasons have machinery making the cheese filled pretzel sticks and not individuals sitting around rolling dough around cheese all day?  In other words, if I provide drawings of how an ordinary individual would go about making the product suffice and it would be up to the manufactures to turn this method of how a human would do it into how machinery would do it?   
 
I guess this might lead pretzel manufactures to come up with their own automation processes to get the cheese into pretzel sticks and subsequently patent the process.   Now if this were to happen wouldn't my patent take precedence because without being licensed to make cheese filled pretzel sticks their patents for developing ways of getting cheese into pretzel sticks through automation would be irrelevant anyways?   Once again, like you guys have dwelled on, I fully understand that I have to show a way how to make these and I would have no problem having artwork done showing how an individual would go about making these, but I wouldn't know how companies would go about mass producing these on an automated assembly line.
 
Just to clarify about my intitial post where I talked about approaching individual companies about my idea, I wouldn't do this until I actually filed the patent application and once I did I would then begin to contact manufactures about licensing my idea.  Someone did raise a valid point, well what happens if I approach company "a" first and they reject my idea and want nothing to do with it, so now how do I approach company "b" and tell them that if they agree to license or buy my idea I will not approach company "a".   I understand how this could be a problem and my reason for coming up with this strategy was that I always thought that my idea wasn't exactly screaming, "this will be approved, 100% guaranteed".  I figure there is a possibility that a company will just run with my idea thinking that my patent application is weak, so I thought this strategy of not approaching the competition might prevent this from happening.  For example, company "a" might say, "great idea, but our attorneys feel that you stand no chance of getting this patent approved, so we will just go ahead and do it ourselves. "  My response would be, "maybe you are right, but what is the value of me keeping this idea out of the competitions' hands while you try to bring thise idea to market?   Think about how much market share and more importantly customer loyalty you can gain while the competition plays catch up."  I'm not pessimistic about this patent getting approved, but like I said before it is not screaming, "patent approved with no quesitons or problems whatsoever", so I just thought I could have an ace up my sleeve if a company thinks that they can walk over me and do it themselves without compensating me, so this is why I came up with this idea.   

Thanks again to all the help that everyone has given me. 
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