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[jtech45]

I grauated last year from University of Sciences Philadelphia with my Pharm.D. For the past year I have been been interested in patent law and have applied to several law schools. I recieved acceptance from many Tier 2 level law schools and am strongly considering going. My question is.. would this be the 3 year - $150k investment for me to further my education? I would hope to be working as a patent attorney in the NYC/NJ/PA area in a firm/company specializing in pharmaceuticals/biotech. What is the salary range for someone with my credentials and how is the demand/supply for jobs? Assume I would be fresh out no experience in law.

I need to make a decision soon on these acceptances so any help would be great!

[patentdude]

Why would you want to jump into patent law with a Pharm. D.? Do you really hate pharmacy that much? I would stick with pharmacy if I were you, much higher demand than patent attorneys, very reasonable hours, and decent pay.

Also, law firms would question why the heck you went to law school after pharmacy school. Unless  you have a PhD in some kind of life sciences or an engineering undergraduate degree, your pharmacy degree will be useless for patent law.

In sum - don't do it unless you completely do not want to be a pharmacist.

[nypatentlaw]

i agree with patentdude, why make such a drastic transition?  one thing i would add though is i personally would (if i were in your shoes) research and find out how much i wanted to do patent law (as opposed to how much i did not want to be a pharmacist) to make this decision.  i agree the pharmd is probably not very useful (even to do patent work for a pharmaceutical), it seems realy the only degree that gives you a leg up on patent law is EE.

my pharmacist friend explained to me that filling bottles for a big pharma co. is making her get dumber by the day (because she feels like she's doing the job of a robot), BUT, with a pharmD i think there are options aside from filling bottles.  why not explore those options?  could pull in a 100k salary so if you do not dislike the work so much why not try it for a while?  it's a hefty investment (of time and money) so why consider ANOTHER hefty investment right away?

no matter what your background - simp;ly going to law school and getting a JD will not get you into a nice law firm with a nice salary - you will have to work for that (ranked high in class, law review/moot court, etc).

i think there are lots of questions you should answer for yourself... i wouldn't throw away an opportunity to start working (easier to get a pharmacist job paying close to 100k than a patent law job after you go through and graduate law school).

hope this helps

[horsechute]

I went to law school with a pill roller, and when he was done, he kept on rolling, just like another friend of mine who was a dentist. He kept on drilling after he graduated. But both of them didn't regret going to law school, although my friend the dentist said he thought being good at science would somehow translate into doing well in law school, which it really didn't. But like I said, they didn't regret doing it, so it all depends on a lot of factors. If you are doing pharmacy work, you can go to night school and the cost should not be a problem, but I don't know your financial situation. And some people like going to school, and some don't. But if you are asking, you probably, like most people here, enjoy it. You'll never know how good a lawyer you can be till you've tried it. I found the LSAT is a really bad predictor for most people. So why not just give it a try? If you don't like it, you can keep doing what you are doing. And who knows, you may be the next Learned Hand. At any rate, you don't have to actually practice law just because you have a law degree. Pharmacy is a good, high paying, respected field too. If you go to law school, if nothing else, at least you will know what to do if you are ever confronted by someone who tries to sell you a pregnant cow.

You'll get a lot of opinions on this, but I wish you the best whatever you decide.

HC

[dr. gonzo]

I graduated from Duquesne's Pharmacy School last May and I was all set to attend their law school in the fall, but I bailed out at the last minute.  I wanted to go into patent law because I don't really enjoy working as a retail pharmacist.  I actuallly hate it to be honest with you.  You must be asking yourself, "Then why the hell didn't you just go to law school?"  Well, hopefully, I'm going to make over 130k this year.  And this is only my first year out of school.  Now that is with OT and bonus money, but if you are a Pharm D and you're not bringing down at least 110k, you must be working in a town that doesn't have running water yet.  

Your career cannot be all about money because you'll simply go crazy; but then again there is always Prozac and Seroquel!  I really thought that I would be happier as a patent attorney, but financially I didn't think it would be worth it.  As you know, pharmacy school is 6 years long (soon to be 8 ) and I have lots of school debt.  Going to law school would have been about another 150K.  Coming out of law school, you have no idea what your starting salary is going to be!  You could make anthing from 75k to 160k in pittsburgh.  EVENTUALLY, I would make more as a patent attorney, but it would take be about 20 years just to break even.  

As a pharmacist, you can write your own ticket.  You can work anywhere in the country and make AT LEAST 6 figures.  Google "best jobs" - pharmacist is on there.  If you don't want to do retail, work in a hospital, go on rounds, invent cancer drugs, whatever you want!  

If you have any questions about anything, please feel free to shoot me an e-mail.  

[horsechute]

Good advice, and if you don't mind my saying so, thanks for posting - it is nice to get some opinions like yours. Even having said what I did about going to law school, you can always just learn it on your own, go to law school on line, etc. I actually think the pharmaceutical area of patent law is the most interesting and I sometimes think it would have been nice to be a pharmacist for the reasons you mentioned.

[yjlu]

I am actually in a very similar situation.  I graduated with a PharmD in '07 and am planning to attend law school in August.  Although I had hope my degree would qualify me for patent prosecution, this forum has certainly put that thought into question.  That said, my PharmD did qualify me to take the patent bar, and I'm sure I can hold my own in terms of scientific intelligence compared to Biochemistry PhDs. 

Sure, the money of a retail pharmacist is alluring...but if you don't enjoy what you do and aren't intellectually challenged, then you shouldn't stop looking for a different career.  Plus, salaries for retail pharmacists don't increase with more experience.  And the only reason for the high salary now is due to a shortage...that's not career stability IMO.  If the law changes so that quality assurance can be performed by automation, then you can forget about the high salaries. 

I will caveat this by saying that I am going to Berkeley Law, so my chances of getting a BigLaw position out of law school are decent, making the money differential more favorable.  If I had not gotten into a top-25 law school, then I would probably have stayed in my current role on the commercial side of the pharmaceutical industry. 

[horsechute]

I am seriously jealous. One of the very best law schools with a strong IP presence, nearby Yosemite National Park, great social scene and beautiful area, getting ready to be a patent lawyer specializing in pharma in a location that will devour your skills (pharma really beats doing electrical, from what I have seen), this would be a dream for me. I am not sure if I enjoyed law school, but I sure wouldn't mind being in your shoes. Plus, you seem pretty humble about the whole thing. You're going to do really well.

I wish you the very best, although I obviously don't need to.

HC

[jtech45]

Yeah I didn't get in to any Tier 1 schools and will be attending a T2 School. My thing is job satisfaction - I really don't have any working retail. I can't vision myself working hospital and the only option left is industry. Law has always been of interest to me and I would like the opportunity to persue IP. My concern is is it a) worth the 3 years, $150k? and b) is a Pharm.D. significant to compete with the PhD's?

Salary wise I think I am honestly off better working retail.. I can make $150k working 50-55 hours a week. But law would be more a rewarding career.. at least thats how I feel.

[yjlu]

jtech45 - 1) maybe you should give the pharmaceutical industry a try.  I'm in the Rutgers industry fellowship program right now, and while it has it's problems, the program does give you a good idea of what working in industry is like.  There's room for career mobility in Pharma and the money is good too.

2) I am really not sure how competitive our PharmDs are in comparison to PhDs or masters for patent prosecution.  Try asking a recruiter or a patent boutique firm...and let me know what you find out 

3) If you do find out that a PharmD isn't good enough for patent prosecution, then the financial disadvantage is quite sizable if you cannot get a $150K+ job out of law school (I'm not sure what the statistics are, but is it only top 10% of class get BigLaw from T2 schools?).

[jtech45]

What company are you working for and what department?

Industry is definitely an option. Wish I would have interviewed for a fellowship! I am thinking of going to Rutgers Law school next fall. Do you know much about demands for PharmD's at IP firms?

[yjlu]

Centocor Ortho Biotech (JnJ subsidiaries) in Market Research.  No idea about demand for PharmD's in IP firms.  But the VP General Counsel of our company actually has a PharmD/JD.  I believe he went to a law school in Arizona, then worked in firms (not IP) and the FDA before moving to industry.

[jackdaw]

I would take a long hard look before you take up law school.  Be careful that you do not fall into the "grass is always greener" mentality and assume you will like law, talk to lawyers, do some research before you make this sort of decision.  I was an electrical engineer and am now thinking I should have stayed in engineering.  What sort of job satisfaction do you think you will be getting as a lawyer?  Don't think its anything like a Grisham novel.  Instead of filling prescriptions you will be spending your day; writing form demand letters, writing memos, (legal writing is the most tedious kind of writing there is), pleadings etc...  Then you always have to worry about actually collecting after you win a case, or collecting from your own clients! *gasp* 

[chandler]

jtech45,

i think jackdaw gives some really good advice about avoiding a "grass is greener" mentality.  when i first read your initial post at the start of this thread my first concern wasn't the $150K price tag, but rather your job satisfaction after spending $150k of your credit and three years of your life. ip law is a lot of long hours and hard work. i've seen quite a few people burn out on it in short order.  since you can make $150k doing retail pharmacy, you have the luxury of being able to fall back on your prior career path to pay back your student loans.  if i were you, i wouldn't be too concerned about what jobs are available and what they pay.  instead i'd focus on figuring out if ip law would give you the job satisfaction you're looking for.  what do you like about law that makes you think you'd find more satisfaction in legal work?

good luck.

[dr. gonzo]

Hey yjlu, I looked into that fellowship program at rutgers but I was worried about the salaries in the pharma industry. 2 questions, what kind of money do you wcpect to make (comparable to retail) and will you have lots of job options after finishing your fellowship?