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[EE2JD]

I'm planning to attend law school this upcoming fall at a reputable tier 2 school in California.  I have an EE and Cpe (Computer Engineering) degree in engineering with 4 years experience as an electrical engineer under my belt.  In addition, I'm planning on completing the patent bar prior to my attendance in law school and I'm currently learning a foreign language (Japanese).

One question...

How is the job market in this field now and the next upcoming years...?  (Patent attorneys in the actual field, please state your experience.  Any information is highly appreciated)

I'm just nervous about the high debt i'm about to accumulate in the upcoming years...


No.. I don't plan to work while I'm in law school....

[sumdude]

Don't go to law school. You'll come out $100k plus in debt and will regret it for the rest of your life.

[EE2JD]

Is it that bad?

[dovn]

If you have a real interest in practicing law then you should go to school.  If you do well in school, you will get interviews and if you are at all personable, then you should get offers.  EE degrees are in very high demand right now.  Do some of your own research.  Check out monster and hotjobs.  Look at the job openings on law firm websites or this website.  Right now there is no shortage of job postings for attorneys with EE backgrounds.  However, no one can tell you what the market will be like in 3 years.  I have a hard time believing that demand would fall off a cliff but you never know.  From the USPTO statistics, it looks like the number of people taking the patent bar exam is increasing.  I don't know if that translates to more attorneys but it's one data point.  If you are going to school because you want to practice law then do it, take it seriously, get good grades, and you will be fine.

[horsechute]

100,000 in loans for someone who clerked in a patent law firm while going to school? Maybe if you have two mistresses, kids in college, old parents and a former spouse to support. Even if so, patent lawyers don't get exactly get paid the same as people who practice poverty law, you know.

[Bill Richards]

Don't go to law school. You'll come out $100k plus in debt and will regret it for the rest of your life.

IMHO, one should ignore single-data-point conclusory statments.  They add nothing to your decision process.

[petethebody]

Consider the following chart from the National Law Journal about placement in the largest 250 firms.

By region
http://www.law.com/img/nlj/charts/composite.pdf

and by top 100 schools
http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/20080414employment_trends.pdf

For most Tier 2 schools, if you're not in the top 10%, you're probably not going to be making above 100k.  Be mindful that the average salary for a starting lawyers is a bimodal distribution with humps at 145k and 50k.
http://www.nalp.org/content/index.php?pid=522

Treat law school like an investment.  There's a very good chance you will not succeed; that you will spend 3 years not making money; that you will come out with $150k in debt; and you will only make 60k to start.  In what other circumstance would you give up 150k and three years of your life to make a 60k/yr annual return?

Most importantly, don't get cocky.  Everyone who goes to law school thinks they'll be top 10%.  Yet, 90% won't.  Everyone did well in college: that's why you're in law school.  Sure, engineers are more inclined to logic, but are they more articulate? Are they accustomed to reading at all? 

And when you get out of law school, let's say you do land one of those high-paying firm jobs.  You will earn every last penny that they pay you.  If you're not willing to work 60-70 hour weeks, being a lawyer is not for you.  And if you go to trial: don't plan on sleeping more than 5 hours a night that whole month beforehand.  Do you have a family that will tolerate such a lifestyle?

Oh, and if you can't bring in business, don't plan on making partner.  No matter how many billables you put up, they will let you go after 6 years if you are not bringing in business (or maybe they'll make you senior counsel until it's time for the next round of layoffs). After all, why pay you when they can bring in a new kid who has the potential to bring in a book of business. 

Now, sorry to give you the gloom & doom outlook about law, but I think it's something important for you to recognize that, like every other endeavor, there is a chance for failure.  Granted, your odds of success are higher being an engineer, but you still need to be a good lawyer, too.

If you walk away with one thing, it should be this:
Don't go to law school to get rich.  Go to law school to become a lawyer.  Lawyering is about clients.  That's why it's a profession: we look after people and the problem that come with them. 

My suggestion is to go to law school for one year and see if it works out.  If your grades aren't good (top third or so), be willing to walk away, unless you really want to be a lawyer.  Firms are already closing offices: Sonnenshein just fired all of its summer associates and incoming new attorneys in CLT.  Be mindful that we are in a recession.  You'll hear more about this at the end of the summer, but firms will be cutting back.  Yes, IP litigation is still doing well right now, but firms will be more willing to move associates from other practice groups to IP lit (especially since you don't need an eng background to do lit- some firms have successful business models where they have few science types litigating patent cases) than hire someone they don't know with no trial experience. 

Good luck, just keep in mind that we're going into a recession. 

[digitalcntrl]

Fundamentally it is a question of how mentally attuned you are to this profession.  Don't flush 100k or so down the toilet only to get a job you despise or not very successful at.  There is too much glamour and glitz in this profession with people going crazy about the six figure salaries.  As patent examiner (EE major, bachelors only) who is going to law school in the fall part-time, I found my apititude for IP law only after rigrous training from my SPE who is an attorney and intensive experience with the examination process.  Remember IP law is a niche field, I have seen many bright PhDs fail miserably at this job because they don't have mental framework to deal with this profession.

[Zing]

Pete that was a very thorough post.  The OP would be wise to listen to your advice.

[patentdude]

Pete's post is thorough and well written. But his post is representative of your average law school student who lacks a technical degree and is not looking to get into IP. Additionally, his post is geared only towards students looking to get into a big law firm.

If you have an EE degree, you basically just have to graduate with okay grades from a tier 2 to get a $100k plus job. You won't get biglaw, but instead will be working at an IP boutique (which is much better in my opinion than working for a biglaw firm). You won't be making $160k plus, but you will definitely be over $100k.

Keep in mind that the location of your school will dictate where you will find your IP job. Go to a school in either D.C., N.Y., Chicago, or the Bay Area. Everywhere else will make it extremely tough to find an IP job.

Good Luck.

[horsechute]

I think Patentdude is right, but it is nice to hear all points of view. I know a lot of people don't agree with my views about the patent office, but I know a lot do as well.

[Zing]

"If you have an EE degree, you basically just have to graduate with okay grades from a tier 2 to get a $100k plus job."

I'm reluctant to present broad statements like this to newcomers in this field.  Too many young people jump into law school without knowing the issues Pete has outlined above.  Your statement has legitimate merit, but in my opinion it is not a hard and fast rule.

[mstrom]

It depends on what IP market you're looking at.  Prosecution is still strong and will remain so as long as the gov't continues to pump money into R&D.  Litigation, though, is struggling.  Because of the market downturn, more up and coming associates / law students are focusing on litigation rather than corporate work, which tightens up the market and increases competition.

[milwmilw]

I've been told that I may have a difficult time getting a job as patent attorney since I am an ME instead of EE.  I don't doubt it, but could anybody relay some more info my way?  Would Chicago be a better area for law school for an ME since the Midwest is bigger on manufacturing?

[horsechute]

Cleveland is, contrary to what most people think, really not a bad place to live. The average house is, I believe, in the one hundred thousands, compared to a livable home in the DC area which is about 500,000 plus. And people used to say that there were lots of ME prosecuting jobs (relative to EE) because Cleveland is a "mechanical town". Then again, during the last election I heard someone say the unemployment rate was over 30 percent, and I thought they had mistaken it for a third world country. When the aerospace industry collapsed in the early 90's there was a 13 percent unemployment rate in LA, which was considered very high. So even after four years, 30 percent is a frightening number, at least to me. But to be honest, I don't know what it is like to get a patent job in Cleveland. Anyway, maybe someone else knows better than I do, and I certainly wish you the best of luck.

HC