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[Bill Richards]

OK, why are we even having this "swearing" contest?  I'm a businessman and can price my services just about anyway I want.  If one wants, and values my services, at the prices I charge, they're welcome to hire me.  If they don't, they are welcome to go elsewhere or do it themselves.  No skin off my nose.  I can, and do, in so many words, tell some potential clients they can't afford my services.  I'm pretty honest up front what the costs are before they've spent a dime.  Many just decide on another course.  No problem.  I'm tired of people demeaning what we do.  Apparently, there are some who believe we add no value.  So be it.
Vive le pro se!

[Neighbor]

If you have an idea for a patent, the best way to go about filing for a patent application is through a patent attorney.  While this may be the easiest way, it is an expensive way.  The patent office allows an inventor to represent him/herself and file/prosecute the patent application.  There are resources available for one to find more about the patenting process, the first of which is, conducting a rudimentary (and i mean rudimentary) search yourself using public search tools.  Find out more at e-formationcentral.  add the three Ws and dot com after the word to get there.  

[Wiscagent]

"... the best way to go about filing for a patent application is through a patent attorney."

Howdy Neighbor!

Why a patent attorney rather than another registered patent practitioner, i.e. a patent agent?

[Bill Richards]

Find out more at e-formationcentral.

Oh, my, does "Neighbor" get around!  Let's see, "Friendly Neighbor", "PE", and now this.  Would you misrepresent yourself like this before a tribunal?  Not if you're an attorney, you'd wind up in contempt.  How about clearing things up rather than just trying to be a shill?

[JimIvey]

I share Bill's suspicion re Friendly Neighbor PE.  However, I'd just point out that it seems that Neighbor, Friendly Neighbor and PE are the same poster -- leaving it up to the reader to determine for her/himself, and I'd repeat an often-mentioned recommendation to do one's homework prior to giving any invention submission/protection/etc. firm money.  I forget which is the most often recommended site for checking up on various companies.  I found this one:
http://inventors.about.com/od/avoidingscams/Invention_Company_Fraud.htm
[TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/2d27xm]

Remember, the audience here is the IP community at large and googlers way after the fact.  

Regards.

[John Anderson]

Just from reading this thread it sounds like there are a lot of desperate and hungry patent agents and attorneys out there. Maybe you all should quit discouraging people. Math is simple, if you don't have the money and can't save it due to your current circumstances, than hiring an attorney is not an option. It's off the table.
So the advice of these hungry professionals is don't try it on your own, just curl up in a ball and die. In which case you have 0% chance of realizing your dreams.

[Wiscagent]

Dear John,

In this forum it is rare to see a patent agent or patent attorney soliciting business.  And by the way, I don’t consider myself to be either desperate or hungry (I had a big bowl of oatmeal for breakfast).

I do agree that “... if you don't have the money and can't save it due to your current circumstances, than hiring an attorney is not an option. It's off the table.”

But for most small or start-up businesses applying for a patent is not a particularly important part of a business plan.  I frequently advise that if person has a great business idea (including an invention), that person needs to prioritize activities and expenditures related to the business.  In most situations getting a patent comes lower on the priority list than manufacturing, distribution, advertizing, and a dozen other tasks.

For the rare small business that must have a patent to succeed, the inventor / business owner must either get some start-up money and hire a professional; or apply for a patent on their own and recognize that there will be a cost in time, effort and money.  And after several years the patent may or may not be granted.  And a do-it-yourself patent, even if granted is unlikely to have much business value.  

I’m not suggesting that the inventor “just curl up in a ball and die.”  But the inventor should recognize that having a wonderful new invention is not sufficient to make big bucks.  It still takes a substantial investment of time, effort and money.

Go on, follow your dreams, I wish you well.  But don’t expect the typical patent professional to take you on as a charity case ... after all ... you’re also just in it for the money.

[john anderson]

Wiscagent,

Your post was great. After looking back at the thread your posts were very helpful and my comment wasn't directed at you. I just want to be clear, millions are made each day on products with Patent Pending Status which is achieved through a "provisional patent application", apparently a bad word.
Also an indisputable fact is that 97% of patents never make a dime. So if someone suggests that you  hire a patent attorney, there is only a 3% chance that is good advice. If however, you are already making money on the invention than it's obvious that you should hire a professional to CYA.

[kaidi]

that is the best answer on my view.
kd
registered patent agent and lawyer in China.

[kylestephen]

Clearly stated, the willingness, or lack of to invest, at whatever level, in your product (in this case, its protection & enforceability) translates into your belief in the product, which then translates to a company interested in licensing it. Kellie has shown us what she feels her creation is worth, so let's move on to something more "worthwhile"...

[Jp]

Oh, goodness, people!
Let's again make something crystal clear.  THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PROVISIONAL PATENT!  REPEAT AFTER ME, "NO SUCH THING AS A PROVISIONAL PATENT!"  There is, in the US, a provisional patent application (PPA) that, at best, gives one a one-year window to file a non-provisional (real) application.  The $100 is only the filing fee for the PPA.  Without more, the PPA is worthless.
Yeesh!

Hello Bill,

Why don't you just say that a PPA, is very much like or is  an invention disclosure, that does pretty much the same darn thing that the DDP, (Document Disclosure Program) use to do ?

That is file a discloure of what your invention is and has or keep it available in the case that you file a NPPA, in the following twelve months.

With a few exceptional differences, the cost from what use to be $10 to what is now $100, given the change in the value of a dollar, about the same price, and of course now you have a pat.pend certification, to use but without an identifying reference.

This was, to the best of my understanding, devised to give the people participating in, "free enterprise" a slight edge on the proliferation of competition. As, to how successful this has been I am unaware, but would like to read a report on that.

A PPA, puts your invention in the caring hands of the Federal government, where there would be little doubt as to the filing date and the contents, like the DDP.

I don't doubt there would be some unscrupulous acts, committed in defiance of this protectorate domain, but there seems to be at least one good thing that we hope someone can say about the, PPA .

Take for example the homeless person, who might have designed the, "paper-clip", of course, . . I am for the state to establish an institution, providing him with a shower even if he is unemployed, so that he can go to the library and read about the free-enterprise system and the future it may provide to him. In this way he doesn't have to wind up sueing, the library for kicking him out because he is offensive, and or posed a health risk to others, and at the same time preserve one of the rights that a democracy can not exist without.

So you see, even though the shower has been invented you can still find modified new uses, this might even bring one, "fame and fotune", offer employment advantages to the individual and the state, and keep the courts capably working in favor of justice, not to mention saving the library from law suits and keeping all those readers, researchers and students, happy and productive, . . so, it goes to show you, you really can never tell what's around the next corner.

[rougie]

I don't believe this,

If any inventor is serious about his invention, then do the patent the right way. Seek professional help and invest the money that is required. I know I felt bad spending lots of money on my patent but let me let you cheapy inventors in on a few secrets.

1) First of all, when an inventor writes his own patent, he will write it with the most details possible and sometimes *too* clear. However, when a patent attorney writes out a patent, he too will right it clearly, however, using a textual method allowing a sort of a smoke screen over the textual intent allowing PTO examiners to comprehend the invention whereas making it difficult to understand for the general public. And if you are like me, where you would like to commercialize your own product, then, being discrete to the world while maintaing a good patent is exactly what you want.

2) Patent lawyers have rules on wording that us inventors don't really know about. Sometimes using a term that you might believe is the right one, can seriously jeopardize you patent. It happened to me last month with the definition of the word "signals"!

3) I have been drawing my patent for one year and a half (Okay, it might be because my patent is a little more complex than other patents) nontheless, meeting and discussing with the patent lawyer has
opened many avenues and possibilities that I would of not thouht of if I were doing this myself.

In summary, the patent is all that inventors have to protect themselves from the world. For heavens sakes, do it right and then, if its well written, you will be able to fight it with integrity. I still have difficulty believing that, but what other choice does any inventor have. In short if you are going to skimp on the only document protecting *your* invention, then may as well you don't do it at all.

regards
robert

[LF]

Ladies and Gents:

Agree with Bill and Wiscagent above. You get what you pay for, there are no free lunches, and most shortcuts get discovered in court if enough money is at stake.

That being said, you are not really paying for just your patent, you are paying for the experience. If you think it does not matter, do it yourself and best of luck. Lucky for all of us, there are plenty of people out there who don't agree with you.