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[momdoc111]

Hello.  I have thought of the idea. I have recorded it in my book. I have had a witness sign it.  Now what?  How do I  protect my idea before the patent application and all the technical paperwork is filled out and sent in to the patent office?
Also, I choose  basically to take this idea, patent it, then license it to a company to market and produce, since I am not a wealthy person by any means, and just get a percent of it.  What do you think of that? Is percent better than a buy out? Do you license with more than one company?

Thank you for your time, Momdoc111

[M. Arthur Auslander]

Dear Momdoc111,

Unfortunately, just because you have a good idea and just because you may be able to get a patent doen't mean more that you can spend a lot of money.

A fact, there is a $100M a year scam industry getting patents for inventors, only one in 10,000 get back more than they pay.

I cannot tell you whether or not you are going to make money BUT, I can usually warn an inventor when he is on the wrong path and is likely to spend money and not have a CHANCE to make money.

I call this a Reality Check®. Many inventors are afraid to look and would prefer to dream and pay for getting patents, most of which are worthless.

The sad part of the patent business is that even getting a GOOD patent is no assureance of making money. One of my biggest haunts is getting a GOOD patent for a personal friend, showing it to a company on a confidential disclosure and then not being take by the company.

Then an industry offered a $50,000,00 prize for such invention. The company we showed it to won the prize with a product not as good and which did not infringe the patent.

That does not mean that every patent is going to fail, it means that even with good patents there is still a big risk.

[eric stasik]

Dear Momdoc111,

Mr. Auslander is right, but I am a little skeptical of the value of asking any patent attorney for business advice... it's a little like asking an auto mechanic if he thinks your car could benefit from a tune-up.

What you need first of all is business advice. The answers you should be asking at this point are:

Is there a potential market for your invention? How big? Which companies would most likely be able to make money from the invention? Would you have to start your own business? etc.

Essentially you need to find out if there is a reason to suffer the expense of obtaining a patent before suffering the expense of obtaining a patent.

The catch 22 is how do you find out the answers to these questions without jeopardizing your right to obtain a patent? Disclosing your idea publicly can severly restrict your ability to obtain a patent later. (This is a bigger risk than someone stealing your idea.)

Now the safest thing to do, of course, is to file an application for patent before you talk with anyone, but if you are unwilling (or unable) to make this investment you have to compromise a little bit.

Some people try to compensate for not filing an application for patent by using an NDA - a non-disclosure agreement which binds the people you talk with to secrecy. The problem with this is that if you demand that everyone sign a non-disclosure agreement with you before you talk with them, you will find very few people willing to talk with you.

Don't be overly obsessed with secrecy.

What you might consider is to discuss your idea with a business person whom you know personally and can trust. See what she thinks. If she is positive to the idea, maybe she can act as intermediary to set up a meeting with others who may be interested in your idea. Start here and see where it goes.

Document everything you do as well as you can. In the U.S., at least, the constitutional right to a patent is given to the inventor so having a solid paper trail of evidence will go a long way towards preserving your rights.  

Your goal should be to put together a business plan before you start thinking about obtaining a patent.

Once you are reasonable sure there is a good business case for your idea THEN talk to a patent attorney about obtaining a patent.

Good Luck!

Regards,

Eric

[Deborah Costet]

Thank you so much.
I feel safe in saying my invention is a toy, and I will market it to the toy companies.
I will not need to open my own business, I want to license it out to a toy company.
I know I have initial money going out for my patent, of course, what I meant was, I do not want    to get molds and produce this item, I want to license it out and let them do all the work and just make a percent or royalty off of it.
Thank you for your advice.
Momdoc111

[JimIvey]

Dear Ms. Costet,

The toy industry is a bit of a peculiar one.  I think, in general, they don't require that you have a patent (or application) to present ideas.  I understand that they're reasonably fair in paying licensing fees.  Now, please don't rely on my saying that.  Please verify that I'm right before foregoing patent protection.  This is all rumor.

I recently heard a presentation given by an independent inventor who, among other things, has successfully marketed a toy idea to toy manufacturers.  I'm sure you'd love to hear what he has to say.

His name is Stephen Key.  His web site is: http://www.inventright.com.  He seems reasonably accessible.  Try contacting him.

Good luck!

P.S.  A more direct to you original question is my article, "What's the Most Important Thing You Need to Know About Patents."
http://www.iveylaw.com/index.php?option=articles&task=viewarticle&artid=3&Itemid=3

[Deborah Costet]

Again, thank you.

[M. Arthur Auslander]

Dear Ms. Costet,
I don't think you are getting the message from this Forum.
How are you going to be able market your idea?  The worst is that if you show even in confidence, you are likely to be met with non acceptance of what you have and a marketplace full of parallel products, if your idea is good.
I've worked both sides of the fence.

[eric stasik]

Dear Ms. Costet,

I do not know Mr. Ivey personally, but he is a frequent participant to this forum and he consistently provides accurate and useful answers. He seems like a decent chap.

His recommendation that you speak with Mr. Stephen Key seems like a reasonable proposal. If Mr. Ivey recommends him, then that would be good enough for me.

I have also been on both sides of the fence and my experience is that the single biggest hurdle to making a deal is inventors who have unreasonable or unrealistic expectations of wealth and control.

When you speak with Mr. Key try to get an idea of what is a reasonable approach for a toy company and if you are comfortable with his experience - then I'd say go for it.

The toy company will have their own ideas of how to turn the idea into a profitable product - what you need to consider is how to turn your idea into a profit for you.

You don't need to license your idea - you might want to sell it outright and let the company suffer the expense of patenting and applying for trademarks. Be flexible and be open to their proposals. Don't let a zeal to grab too much stop you from getting anything at all. More good ideas die from this than anything else.

Don't forget to have fun too. There is a lot more satisfaction to life than becoming rich (but I've lived in Sweden for most of my adult life, so maybe I have a distorted view.) Seeing your idea become reality is often more satisfying than the money you might earn from it, but of course this is a personal decision for you to make.

Good luck!

Best Regards,

Eric Stasik

[Deborah Costet]

Yes Eric, I did take the recommendation from Mr. Ivy(thank you Mr. Ivy)and contacted that man and I sent an inquiry about his seminars.
See, I know from experience what you mean, my dad had two patents on toys and because he was foolish, he never made one red cent thinking he could do everything himself or being selfish with his expectations of getting rich.
I do not need to get rich nor have that idea.  But alittle would be nice and to see my toy out there and say it was my idea is great too.
Because I know I do not have the money or know how to go from start to finish with actually making, marketing, and producing my item, nor do I want to do all that, I would rather sell the idea and make a little.  This has been my goal from the start.
Thank you,
Momdoc111

[JimIvey]

Thanks to everyone for the kind words.

Just to clarify, I didn't mean to *recommend* Stephen Key other than to identify him as a possible lead and advisor.  He seems to be successful in selling his ideas and has specific experience in the toy industry.

To summarize, he said that the toy industry relies on idea submissions from independent inventors and they're afraid to "stiff" any inventors for fear that word will get around to not do business with them and their free R&D will dry up.

For what it's worth, I haven't heard anything similar about any other industry.  When pursuing a different idea unrelated to the toy industry, Mr. Key used patents and even ended up litigating patents to protect his idea.  One of his points was to know your industry.

Again, good luck with your venture.  Let us know how things turn out.

Best regards....

[roger rainville]

I have thought of somthing that im sure would sell big.

what now
i am willing to sell my idea to lets say sony ect

[JimIvey]

There's just too much to say about that in a forum like this.  Luckily, most of it has already been said.  

I'd suggest looking for patent FAQs and trade secret FAQs -- even invention submission FAQs.  There's a recent decision in trade secret law that really favors  people in your position.  I've just heard about and read about it but have not read the opinion itself yet.

Of course, there are many patent FAQs listed here:
http://www.intelproplaw.com/Patent/

I'd suggest reading up on the various FAQs already out there and see if they answer all your questions.  If not, come back here.

Good luck!

[M. Arthur Auslander]

Dear Mr. Ivey,

You and I both know an inventor should get to a patent lawyer they can trust ASAP.

[JimIvey]

Dear Mr. Auslander,

I'm a bit baffled here.  I see post after post by you that inventing and patenting can be a total and complete waste of time and money.  It seems rather contradictory to send them running to a patent attorney immediately after the flash of brilliance by which the invention is conceived if the invention and patent process is likely to be a big waste of time and money.

My FAQ quoted above is an attempt to educate clients sufficiently to avoid losing whatever rights they might have had while doing their due diligence to make sure it's not a waste of time.

So, I may have to respectfully disagree -- I don't *know* that the first thing any inventor should do is see a patent attorney.  I'm not even sure I *think* that.  But, if the invention appears to have legs (potential to go somewhere), I think seeing a patent attorney very early is a really good idea.

Regards.

[M. Arthur Auslander]

Dear Mr. Ivey,

Do you believe your job is to JUST get patents or to help clients? Are you telling me that you cannot look at a disclosure, before or after a patent search, and not know that even a patent on it cannot make money because of narrow claims?

What is the value of an avoidable patent with narrow claims or a patent that is dominated by patents not owned by the inventor or the assignee or for that matter, what is the value of an application finally rejected?

Do you counsel the commercial client as to alternatives such as trademarks or the combination of patent and trademark or even trade secrets?

I counsel clients to examine both their rights and best interest. A well protected trade secret can last forever. Over the millenia the law has never been certain but there are still sign posts that cleints can be taught to read to get as far as they can or early on take a better road.

I don't make decisions for the client but present a big picture as early and realistically as possible.

The seeing the patent lawyer early is particularly important for those that have no experience. There may be exponential value for the experienced client to act quickly to make sure that as many options that are available can be quickly considered.