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[anonymous1]

Good call, Chicken Dude! My mistake.

I think I've found another one - though I could be wrong.

26. (Paraphrasing) The following claims are fully supported in the spec:

1. A widget comprising A, B and C.
2. A widget as claimed in Claim 1 wherein C further comprises D.
3. A widget as claimed in Claim 1 and 2 wherein B is B'B'.

Examiner rejects claim 3 as improperly dependent. Which of the following is presented in proper claim format?

(A) 3. A widget as claimed in Claim 1 wherein B is B'B'.

(B) 3. A widget as claimed in any one of Claims 1 and 2 wherein B is B'B'.


PTO says A is correct and B is incorrect because B does not resolve the improper dependency issue. Looks to me that B does and that B could also be correct. I see some examples in the MPEP to back me up. Comments anyone? Am I missing something? Thanks in advance.

[melwrc]

Your paraphrase is slightly inaccurate.  You must also consider HOW the claims are amended because the question is "In the absence of issues of supporting disclosure, which of the following proposed amendments is presented in proper claim format?"  The PTO wouldn't have bothered showing underlining and brackets if the question was just which alternative claim is correct.  Note that it says "proper claim format," not proper multiple dependent claim format.

In general, when doing multiple dependency questions, only select an answer that appears verbatim in sec. 608.01(n).  Answer B is not on the list, close but not exactly.  But I don't think that this question is entirely about multiple dependents.  I think that reason for B being considered as incorrect is the form of the amendment.  Looking carefully at answer B (on the actual test because underlining isn't supported on this board), the "s" is added to "claim" without being underlined.  D and E are in equal or better multiple dependent form than B, but the amendments are improperly made.

In this question, A is clearly correct by not being a multiple dependent.  The amendment is also properly made (underline for added text, strikethrough or brackets for deletion).  The question did not require that the right answer be a multiple dependent claim.  

Some examiners might let B slide without sending out a Notice of Non-Compliant Amendment, but A is the only answer that cannot be properly rejected by an examiner.

[Wick]

Yeah, I gues us folks out West get the joy of weatin' out for another weekend before results are posted or letters received. The patent office confirmed that names will indeed not be posted until next week, due to the difficulty of uploading the names of those who have passed, for whom they have already mailed out letters on the 25th.

[anonymous1]

Thanks melwrc. I guess I just need to get used to the idea of picking the "best answer." I was confused regarding this question because the answer list doesn't discuss bracketing/underlining issues but instead says that B is incorrect because it's still not in proper multiple dependent form. No idea what to make of that.

At least if I get a question like this, I'll know what to watch for.

[patento]

Just got the snail mail. I passed too. took the test on May 9th.

Credit to my success in the exam goes to the people who posted their experience and questions from the exam.

[jmudd11]

Well, I just finished taking the exam.  I didn't think it was too bad.  Everyone's comments on here REALLY helped out and held true.

There were lots of repeats from the most recent paper exam (October 2003), so make sure that you have studied that exam closely.  That's at least 15 freebies, which gives you lots of time to look up the stuff you're not sure about.

There were a lot of PCT questions (probably around 8-10) and questions involving foreign priority issues - but, this was something I had been warned about, so I had studied PCT closely.
Make sure you know in detail the requirements for getting an international filing date, the req's and timelines for national stage entry, and the PCT power of attorney and representation rules.

Lots of appeal questions, too.

I actually had one biotech question on submitting nucleotide sequences in Computer Readable Format.  That was definitely a look up for me.

No PTA at all!  I recall soemone else posting online that they had no PTA on their exam either.

Good luck, Anonymous1, you should be fine.

It's so great having the searchable MPEP - far better than using a hard copy.  I didn't think it was awkward to use at all - especially when you can type in verbatim text from questions and have it take you straight to the answer....

Make sure you practice using the online simulator.  I used upstartraising.com's simulator and found it to be a pretty good equivalent to the real thing.  Make sure you get a lot of practice at looking stuff up with the online version of the MPEP - if you're good at that, then the exam is a lot easier.
They seem to have worked out any bugs that there may have been with the searchable MPEP, because mine worked flawlessly and quickly (e.g. I could do a search of all of chapter 2100 in about 10 seconds).

Well, since the last round of results just came out, it looks like I could be waiting a while to find out my results....bummer.  Oh well, time to start studying for the Missouri Bar exam now.....ugh

[xenoslush]

just curious about the appeal questions on the exam. are they mostly on the filing date of the Appeal Brief, cancellation of rejected/objected claims after withdrawal/dismissal, filing of Amendments during Appeal?

thanks in advance for any hints.

[jmudd11]

From what I recall, there was the full range of appeal questions.

Frequently, they'll give you a certain procedural posture involving an appeal and ask you what the possible courses of action are at that point (and usually what the best course is for your client).

There were a couple dealing with when the Board issues a new grounds for rejection.

There was one about what happens when a deadline is missed during appeal and there are some claims allowed and some that stand rejected.

There were a few dealing with deadlines, extensions, etc. associated with appeals.

To give you an idea the extent they covered appeal on my exam, they even asked me a question dealing with when an examiner's answer brief raises a new interpretation of the law.  In that case, it must be approved by the TC director and then sent on to the Office of Patent Examination and Policy for approval.  
(Don't worry, I didn't actually know that, I just searched "new interpretation of law" in Chapter 1000, found a reference referring me to 1200, where I did the same search and found the exact answer I was looking for....)

Oh yeah, there was one dealing with how a notice of appeal need not be signed, too.

That's all I can remember right now (and all I really choose to remember at this point.....it's time to hit the bars)

[no-reexam]

I took the exam on 5/9, and got the letter from PTO today. I passed. This is my first try.

First of all I want to thank everyone here. This forum really helped me a lot.

I would like to share how I prepared for the exam.

I did not take or read any prep class/books, just MPEP and old exams.

For the MPEP:

I read 100-600, 50% of 700, double patenting part of 800, 1200, 1400, 1800 and part of 2200.

I did not read 2100 at all. But I took Patent Law before so knew some basic principles. I just did not have enough time to read 700 and 2100 (though they are really the foundation of knowing the patent system).

I studied on part-time basis from Feb - May 8.

For the old exams, I did 2002 and 2003 exams. On the first round, I only get 56-68% correct. Before exam, I could get 90-95% correct. I think it helps a lot if you go through the old exams 3 -4 times, and you will remember 95% of the answers.

Thanks again and good luck to everyone.

[jmudd11]

I re-read your question, and yes, there was also a question dealing with filing of amendments on appeal (there might have been two questions dealing with that, actually).

[xenoslush]

awesome. great info. thanks jmudd.

[ajay]

hi  everyone , can anyine suggest me as to what study material i should follow to take the patent bar .
am a little confused, as there are too many people offering study courses.
i would like to know which one will be the best  and will it be sufficient or do i need to buy anything else apart from what you suggest me.

[Studying hard]

Arrghh!!  
(1) THANKS to everyone who posted suggestions re: reviewing 2003 exams, etc.-- if you are taking the exam between now and June 2d (now 8th), this thread is right on the money-- LOTS of appeal, reexam, and PCT are the order of the day-- along with 10-15 repeats from the 2003 exams.


Kayton Narcolepsy, or anyone else in the know:

How did you find out that MPEP 8th, 2nd rev goes into effect on June 8?  I can't find this info on USPTO website.  

Thanks.

[xenoslush]

"The examination will begin using the Eighth Edition, Revision 2 of the MPEP on Thursday, June 9, 2005. The March 2 nd notice announced a starting date of “on or about June 2, 2005.” It has become necessary to reschedule the beginning date to assure that the questions are properly formatted."

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/dcom/olia/oed/reschedule2dedmpep.htm

[Studying]

Hey, everyone.  For those of you who have already taken and pass the exam, how long did you study?  PLI says to study for like 150 hours.  Is that about right?

I think this board is great.  Congrats to everyone who's passed and good luck to those planning to take it soon.