Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[khoramdin]

I am 37 years YOUNG living in Canada with B.Eng. in Communication Engineering, MSc in Communication System Engineering and Ph.D. in Optical Communication from United Kingdom.  My previous work experiences have been mainly in research, design, and development in the fields of Fibre Optics, Electronics, and Telecommunication in either side of Atlantic Ocean (UK and Canada).

All these sound wonderful to impress girls in a party but the reality is that things are not that great when you get your pay check at the end of the month and you are constantly worried if you are going to get laid off.  Let’s face it, in the last 5 years I had to work for 3 different employers since they keep going bankrupt!  he hehe hehehe ... and I don’t enjoy driving myself nuts looking for a job again and again and again since as I am get older my patience is running thinner.  
I have just checked the price for Mercedes-Benz S-Class S65 AMG Sedan and it is around $170,000 and I wonder how many of those engineers who have left messages in this forum, claim to make a good living drive this car?!!!

Any ways, my questions are simple and straight forward as I have set my mind and heart to join the IP field.  I would very much appreciate any insight on the following questions;

It appears in Canada I can join an Intellectual Property firm as a technical consultant and become a patent attorney after a twelve-month mentorship training program as well as to complete the qualifying exam.

1.Does such a program exist in USA?
2.Can I obtain a similar position in USA if I become a patent attorney in Canada?

Considering these two countries have entirely different systems and becoming a Canadian patent attorney doesn’t do much in becoming a USA patent attorney; which of the following options would be the best?

1.Join the IP firm as a technical consultant and attend law school at evenings?
2.Start attending law school full time and get LLB or JD and forget about a full-time professional job for awhile?
3.What are the differences between LLB and JD?

If I am off the track entirely then please accept my humble apology. Your information to get me started in the right path is greatly appreciated.

I would like to leave my email address in case you feel shy to share your information in public. My email address:  

babak_khoramdin@hotmail.com

Allow me to take this opportunity to thank you in advance for your time and help.

Babak

[jimbob]

Are you nuts!!!

12 months to become a patent attorney in Canada. It will take at least 3 years in the US.

[Isaac]

I think the OP is referring to the requirement for an apprenticeship before
taking the exam.  Rather than comparing the 12 months with the length of time required to get a law degree compare the 12 months apprenticeship with 0 months in the US.

The LLBs as given by Canadian law schools are pretty much the same level of education as JDs in the US.  In other countries the LLB is a first college degree.
In fact US law schools used to give LLB but switched the name of the degree to JD for prestige
purposes.  Some Canadian institutions have mulled over doing the same thing.

One obstacle to becoming a patent attorney in the US is that you have to become licensed in some state.  A few states
will allow a foreign educated attorney to take the bar exam, so you'd have to seek licensing in one of those states.
You can practice before the USPTO as a patent agent without taking a state
bar exam or being admitted to a state bar.

[ray]

 :-/ In US, you don't need a law degree to practice before patent office.  You can practice as a patent agent. However, patent attorneys here created an impression that patent agents can not work as good as patent attorneys.  As a result, you are expected to go to law school, get a law degree, and become a patent attorey.

It is true that patent law is very complex.  Having a law degree helps a lot!

In Europe and other countries, you are called patent attorney even with out law degree.  I am not sure how the system works in Europe.  

With respect to Benz cars, many lawyers in US do have them.  In US, lawyer profession is generally high paying and scientist/engineer profession is generally low paying.  I don't know why!  

If you are a smart scientist/engineer, you can come up with inventions that would make $$$$.  We can help you and bill you.

[skoz686-iplaw]

I am a US citizen with an ABET accredited BEEE degree from the US, and several years of professional IT experience.

I am currently doing my LLB degree full time in Australia. I always wanted to become a patent lawyer, but high tuition rates in the US discouraged me. As an Australian resident and having a magna cum laude (high honors) in my BEEE, I was able to secure a government supported (HECS) place in the LLB program here in Australia. As a result the tuition is very minimal compared to the US.

Based on my research, LLB degrees from Australia, UK, Canada and New Zealand are directly recognized by several major states in the US, to sit their Bar exams. For example, New York and California. You can gain admission to several other States through reciprocal agreements once you gain admission to any US State Bar. Graduates of LLB programs from India, and some other countries, need to complete an additional LLM to be eligible to sit for the State bars of these States.

In Australia, and I think the same is true for Canada and Europe, you need to have a technical degree and pass a set of exams to become a Patent and/or Trademark Attorney. The exams can be substituted for University offered Master degrees in Intellectual Property Law, that cover the same subjects tested on the exams. Admission as a lawyer is not required in Australia to become a Patent and/or Trademark Attorney. However, most law firms prefer you have a law degree and admission as a lawyer. They even mention that in their ads.

My plans are to get my LLB, and a Masters in Intellectual Property Law from Australia, and then practise patent law either here (in Australia) or in the US. All that depends on what offers I get and what the pay is. Of course, I have to take and pass the USPTO patent bar exam and a State bar exam.

I think experience gained in Patent Law (both in prosecution and/or litigation) in Australia or Canada, will not go in vain in the US. As I think, they follow the same basics and in many cases, the same procedures.

The only obstacle I can think of is, some Patent Law jobs in the US specifically ask for ABA accredited JDs.

Comments are welcome!

[LJP]

In Australia, and I think the same is true for Canada and Europe, you need to have a technical degree and pass a set of exams to become a Patent and/or Trademark Attorney. The exams can be substituted for University offered Master degrees in Intellectual Property Law, that cover the same subjects tested on the exams.

In Canada you do not need to have a degree to write the patent agent test.   The only requirement is that you have worked in the area of patent law and practice.

Additionally, the only way to become a patent agent in Canada is to pass the test administered by the Patent office.

[skoz686-iplaw]

I forgot to mention that in Australia, in addition to meeting the technical degree requirement, and either passing 9 topic exams or completing an Accredited course of study covering those topics, you also need to have at least 1 year experience in Patent Law, before being eligible to register as a Patent Attorney.

The 1 year experience requirement does not apply to those who want to register as a Trade Marks Attorney.

Details can be found here:

http://www.psb.gov.au/patreg.htm

http://www.psb.gov.au/tmreg.htm

Similar to Patent Agents in the US, Patent Attorneys in Australia can prosecute patents. But to represent clients in IP litigation, they need to have law degrees and be admitted to practice.

Also similar to the US, lawyers do not have to be registered as Patent Attorneys in Australia to do IP litigation. In practice, most lawyers involved in IP litigation in Australia, are not registered as Patent Attorneys.

But a number of registered Patent Attorneys in Australia are admitted as lawyers (Solicitors and Barristers) as well, and do both prosecution and litigation work. This is similar to US Patent Attorneys (who are registered with the USPTO and admitted to a State Bar).

[.]

Nice deal.  Wish I knew about the deals in Oz.

What you need is a bar admission to a state and admission to the USPTO to say you are a patent lawyer.

The way to do it is:

Come back to the US, do a one year LLM and take state exam.  Most palces requires US citizienship, NY does not.  Thus, most foreigners take the NY bar exam.  Take the PTO bar.  Presto.  Instant patent lawyer.  No US JD required.

I am a US citizen with an ABET accredited BEEE degree from the US, and several years of professional IT experience.

I am currently doing my LLB degree full time in Australia. I always wanted to become a patent lawyer, but high tuition rates in the US discouraged me. As an Australian resident and having a magna cum laude (high honors) in my BEEE, I was able to secure a government supported (HECS) place in the LLB program here in Australia. As a result the tuition is very minimal compared to the US.

Based on my research, LLB degrees from Australia, UK, Canada and New Zealand are directly recognized by several major states in the US, to sit their Bar exams. For example, New York and California. You can gain admission to several other States through reciprocal agreements once you gain admission to any US State Bar. Graduates of LLB programs from India, and some other countries, need to complete an additional LLM to be eligible to sit for the State bars of these States.

In Australia, and I think the same is true for Canada and Europe, you need to have a technical degree and pass a set of exams to become a Patent and/or Trademark Attorney. The exams can be substituted for University offered Master degrees in Intellectual Property Law, that cover the same subjects tested on the exams. Admission as a lawyer is not required in Australia to become a Patent and/or Trademark Attorney. However, most law firms prefer you have a law degree and admission as a lawyer. They even mention that in their ads.

My plans are to get my LLB, and a Masters in Intellectual Property Law from Australia, and then practise patent law either here (in Australia) or in the US. All that depends on what offers I get and what the pay is. Of course, I have to take and pass the USPTO patent bar exam and a State bar exam.

I think experience gained in Patent Law (both in prosecution and/or litigation) in Australia or Canada, will not go in vain in the US. As I think, they follow the same basics and in many cases, the same procedures.

The only obstacle I can think of is, some Patent Law jobs in the US specifically ask for ABA accredited JDs.

Comments are welcome!

[franlorin]

It appears in Canada I can join an Intellectual Property firm as a technical consultant and become a patent attorney after a twelve-month mentorship training program as well as to complete the qualifying exam.

1.Does such a program exist in USA?
2.Can I obtain a similar position in USA if I become a patent attorney in Canada?

Babak, you may consider a distance-learning law course (i.e., online) offered by some California Law Schools to obtain a law degree in that state - you will need to eventually pass the bar exam in that state, of course - then, if you also pass the Patent Agent Exam offered by the USPTO, and you become registered, you can become a "patent attorney" - it will still take a few years, though

Fran Lorin
www.patent.0catch.com

[PiP]

As per usual, Issac Clark's answer was excellent.

I think you should attend law school via a night program in the USA.  4 stressful years and you are done!  

I don't think there is any immense sense of security for attorneys as the focus becomes hours billed, etc.  But the paychecks are bigger and there is a lot of freedom with what you can do with the JD.

[Isaac]

Nice deal.  Wish I knew about the deals in Oz.

What you need is a bar admission to a state and admission to the USPTO to say you are a patent lawyer.

The way to do it is:

Come back to the US, do a one year LLM and take state exam.  Most palces requires US citizienship, NY does not.  Thus, most foreigners take the NY bar exam.  Take the PTO bar.  Presto.  Instant patent lawyer.  No US JD required.

No state requires US citizenship to take the bar exam.  The Supreme Court has held that it is unconsitutional for states to have such a requirement.

Most states do require a JD/LLB from an ABA approved law school.  This is the obstacle faced by foreign educationed bar candidates.

It is additionally the case that the federal government can and does place limitations on foreigners being able to gain registration to the patent bar.  Non citizens have to have a suitable immigration status to take the patent bar.   If the immigration status does not allow permanent residency, the foreign applicant can only get a limited recognition to practice for an employer.   I don't believe the limited recognition allows you to call yourself a patent agent or a patent attorney.

[Reza Shamzi]

<<I have just checked the price for Mercedes-Benz S-Class S65 AMG Sedan and it is around $170,000 and I wonder how many of those engineers who have left messages in this forum, claim to make a good living drive this car>>

Typical Persian.  It's all about the money to impress other Persians.  

[Wiscagent]

I have a car with almost 170,000 miles on it.  It starts every morning, even in sub-zero weather.

Is that better or worse than costing $170,000?  

[Isaac]

I have a car that has about the 170K on it and is just about 15 years old.  Given that it's primary function is to sit in the "Park & Ride" lot and not get broken into while I'm at work, I don't see a $170k car serving quite as well.

[franlorin]

I have no car at all - public transportation gets me where I need to go, or, if necessary, a rental car

cars are really not that essential as personal possessions - depending on where you choose to live, of course