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Author Topic: Writing a patent drafting book  (Read 1630 times)

ex-aminer?

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Writing a patent drafting book
« on: 08-16-12 at 08:39 pm »

OK.   Let me first state that I'm a examiner of 5 plus years.  I feel like I've gathered enough experience that I know what it takes to get a patent, being a member of the very group who says yes or no.

I know that we're barred from filing for patents, but this makes sense.  As long as any particular knowledge of the PTO isn't discussed, (not that examiners have much intimate knowledge anyway), are there any gov't laws or PTO laws that exclude an examiner from opining on the best methods to obtain a patent?

I've wondered about this for a while.
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Blutarsky

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Re: Writing a patent drafting book
« Reply #1 on: 08-17-12 at 08:37 am »

You might make a few bucks (which isn't a bad thing), but after being in this business for quite a bit longer than five years I can tell you that examination practices at the PTO are disturbingly disjointed.  You will never find two examiners that will decide a case similarly.  Subjectivity reigns supreme.  Thus, I would not find the musings of a single examiner particularly helpful.

I would hop on this side of the fence for a few years and see if what you know allows you to obtain patents with a higher/faster allowance rate having suitably broad claims relative to your peers.
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Evil In House Counsel

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Re: Writing a patent drafting book
« Reply #2 on: 08-18-12 at 04:16 pm »

A book on patent drafting written by an examiner, i.e. someone who has never actually drafted claims from scratch? Totally useless.

Now, a book on what really goes on in the patent office, with advice on how to get your patents through the office, written by an examiner? That might be something. I'd purchase it if it was reasonably priced.
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ex-aminer?

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Re: Writing a patent drafting book
« Reply #3 on: 08-20-12 at 05:03 pm »

Evil, more the 2nd type of book.  A "straight dope" if you will.  The way things really work.

It's this type of angle that bothers me.  I feel like it could get me in hot water and my full-time job could be in jeopardy.  This is obviously undesirable, just to make a little cash and sell some e-books.

I completely agree that "disturbingly disjointed" is how the PTO operates.   I've seen a fair number of absolutely horrible rejections, horrible art and/or horrible obviousness rationale.  The PTO is like any other company/agency, where you will have competent people and incompetent people (Some agencies like the DMV are 95% incompetent, most law firms are 95% competent, and I'm not sure where the PTO lands, but hopefully more on the competent side  8) .   I'm not sure if "disjointed" is fixable however, since the job is almost 100% autonomous.  Even the same examiner with a different boss might see a significant change in rejections/allowances, art, etc.

Even though its disjointed, I think me going through my standard process of examination, including key things that frustrate my search (see: help you get a patent) probably apply to other examiners who have made it to the primary level.

My real question was repercussions.  Can I write about the PTO (we don't even have security clearances)? How do pseudonyms work e.g. can you file for a copyright under a pseudonym?  Is it humanly possible this type of book jeopardizes my job?  Obviously, absolutely no names or inventions would be disclosed, just all general "helpful" information for getting a patent.  Like I said above though, because I'm aiming for the real deal, how things really get done, what goes through an examiners mind, etc. I could see it angering management.
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JustAnotherExaminer

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Re: Writing a patent drafting book
« Reply #4 on: 08-21-12 at 04:12 pm »

A book on patent drafting written by an examiner, i.e. someone who has never actually drafted claims from scratch? Totally useless.

Now, a book on what really goes on in the patent office, with advice on how to get your patents through the office, written by an examiner? That might be something. I'd purchase it if it was reasonably priced.

How to get a patent:
Step 1: File 100 pages of arguments on your first response.  Argue. every. single. limitation. of. every. independent. and. dependent. claim. Argue against obviousness of every combination of reference forwards and backwards using every single anti-obviousness rationale.

Step 2: Once you've got a nice, organized response together with all your arguments lined up in logical order, cut and paste sentences from all the pages into random other pages.  E.G. Have arguments 1 through 100, argue argument 1 on pages 1, 12, 21, 35, 46, 62, and 86.  You get the idea.

Step 3: File an appeal in your second and every future response until allowance.

Your application will either be allowed or sent to the black hole room.  With the new workflow system, more likely allowed.
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plex

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Re: Writing a patent drafting book
« Reply #5 on: 08-21-12 at 04:43 pm »

It might be fine, but you would have to tread a thin line, you basically aren't supposed to write something that you think would embarrass the USPTO enough that they would be justified in taking some sort of action.

As for appealing, that in itself throws the patent application into a newly forming blackhole, appeal backlogs are skyrocketing, and the RCE backlog is going up quite fast, and even the amendment backlog (yes, there is one now), really skyrocketed.
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lukertin

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Re: Writing a patent drafting book
« Reply #6 on: 08-23-12 at 10:40 pm »

As for appealing, that in itself throws the patent application into a newly forming blackhole, appeal backlogs are skyrocketing, and the RCE backlog is going up quite fast, and even the amendment backlog (yes, there is one now), really skyrocketed.

Don't worry, they solved this by pushing excess RCEs and Amendments onto the folks in the Training Academy.
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Oh, Crud

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Re: Writing a patent drafting book
« Reply #7 on: 08-27-12 at 10:00 pm »

Publish your e-book under a pseudonym.
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klaviernista

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Re: Writing a patent drafting book
« Reply #8 on: 09-26-12 at 07:39 am »

Evil, more the 2nd type of book.  A "straight dope" if you will.  The way things really work.

It's this type of angle that bothers me.  I feel like it could get me in hot water and my full-time job could be in jeopardy.  This is obviously undesirable, just to make a little cash and sell some e-books.

I completely agree that "disturbingly disjointed" is how the PTO operates.   I've seen a fair number of absolutely horrible rejections, horrible art and/or horrible obviousness rationale.  The PTO is like any other company/agency, where you will have competent people and incompetent people (Some agencies like the DMV are 95% incompetent, most law firms are 95% competent, and I'm not sure where the PTO lands, but hopefully more on the competent side  8) .   I'm not sure if "disjointed" is fixable however, since the job is almost 100% autonomous.  Even the same examiner with a different boss might see a significant change in rejections/allowances, art, etc.

Even though its disjointed, I think me going through my standard process of examination, including key things that frustrate my search (see: help you get a patent) probably apply to other examiners who have made it to the primary level.

My real question was repercussions.  Can I write about the PTO (we don't even have security clearances)? How do pseudonyms work e.g. can you file for a copyright under a pseudonym?  Is it humanly possible this type of book jeopardizes my job?  Obviously, absolutely no names or inventions would be disclosed, just all general "helpful" information for getting a patent.  Like I said above though, because I'm aiming for the real deal, how things really get done, what goes through an examiners mind, etc. I could see it angering management.

You are asking the wrong group of people.  The only opinion that matters is the opinion of the members of USPTO's office of enrollment and discipline  and possibly the contracting office/OIG of the department of commerce.  Give them a call, explain what you want to do, and see if/how you can clear it.  Its better to ask the right people and be told no then it is to ask the wrong people, rely on their answer, and get hammered for it later.

As a former examiner turned patent attorney, I think that my personal knowledge of what goes on behind closed doors at the PTO gives me a leg up with what I do (mostly prosecution).  So a book on that topic would likely be considered welcome by many attorneys who do not have prior examination experience.

One thing you would obviously want to shy away from is providing legal advice in the book (assuming you are not a lawyer).  In most instances, a patent prosecution attorney takes a particular action and/or crafts his arguments in a particular way to manage the legal repercussions that may result from that action in a particular way. I'm not talking about repercussions that will affect whether or not a patent is obtained.  I'm talking about repercussions that may affect the scope of the patent (e.g., prosecution history estoppel, loss of DOE, etc), whether the obtained patent will actually be valid/enforceable, etc.  Thus, the "best" method of obtaining a patent is not necessarily the one that gets a patent application issued by the USPTO in the quickest, most cost efficient manner. 
As you only have examination experience, you may be able to provide insight as to how a patent application is "actually" treated in the USPTO, and how a practitioner might address issues arising from that treatment.  But you would likely not be able to explain how those practition actions may affect the scope/enforceability of the resulting patent.

Also, long before patent law was of interest to me I worked for the DoD as a contract operations representative.  From that experience I can tell you with absolute certainty that the department of commerce will be concerned about the possibility that you (as a government employee) may make representations in the book that may be construed as representations of the USPTO/DoC as a whole.  The government is extremely nitpicky about who can make representations on its behalf, to the point where government employees who do not have agency authority (i.e., who are not an authorized agent of the government) may be held personally accountable for any costs incurred from any unauthorized representations they might make on the governments behalf.  So, tread carefully.
« Last Edit: 09-26-12 at 07:57 am by klaviernista »
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Itoen

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Re: Writing a patent drafting book
« Reply #9 on: 10-01-12 at 05:14 pm »

Even if you did get the PTO to sign off on your idea, I'm not sure what you could write that would be 1) useful to my practice and 2) something I don't already know.  Moreover, there aren't that many patent practitioners out there, so your market is pretty limited.
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bartmans

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Re: Writing a patent drafting book
« Reply #10 on: 10-02-12 at 07:35 am »

Examination in the USA seems tobe a lottery. Read my blog "Give me another Examiner, please' at: https://www.rubiconpersonalip.com/blog/give-me-another-examiner-please-.html or read the article of S. Tu, titled Luck/Unluck of the Draw: An Empirical Study of Examiner Allowance Rates (Tu, S., 20 Stan. Tech. L. Rev., published at: http://ssrn.com/abstract=1939508, dated October 5, 2011.

Whether or not your patent is granted seems to be dependent on luck: which examiner is drawn from the pile?
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ThomasPaine

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Re: Writing a patent drafting book
« Reply #11 on: 10-02-12 at 02:23 pm »

No doubt there are some examiners you would be extremely unlucky to draw from the pile, so to speak, but if you refuse to play their games (e.g. no allowable subject matter until at least one RCE is filed, etc.), your chances of success are pretty good.

As for a book about patent prosecution written by an examiner, I can't imagine anything more useless. 
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Oh, Crud

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Re: Writing a patent drafting book
« Reply #12 on: 10-03-12 at 11:53 am »

Examination in the USA seems tobe a lottery. Read my blog "Give me another Examiner, please' ...


In my experience (and I also prosecute ~ 99% of my US applications outside of the US), the lottery-like aspect of examiner draw in the U.S. differs from many other jurisdictions only in scope but not in kind.

Yes, it is a very frequent and frustrating problem in the U.S.  But it is also not at all uncommon in the EPO or in Japan.  China and Korea were (until recently), in my experience and in my art areas, the most consistent across the board.  Unfortunately in the last year or so many of the China examiners have started taking the shortcut of slavishly copying the EPO, and carrying along with that the inconsistent approach.
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ex-aminer?

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Re: Writing a patent drafting book
« Reply #13 on: 10-03-12 at 09:59 pm »

Thanks for the thoughtful response Klav.  Your line of thinking is basically what I've thought all along.  I would have to contact somebody within the organization, and I'm thinking its a less than 10% chance they'd be cool with it.

As for the study listed above, I agree that you will get "luckier" by getting an examiner who allows more cases, but is it really lucky to get a patent granted that will not hold up anyway?

I don't understand what point the blogger is making comparing different AUs.  If you were comparing two examiners in the same exact art who had wildly different allowance rates, he'd have a more persausive argument.  I only got the Abstract of the study, so I'm limited to the Bloggers opinion on it (2nd link).

As an examiner who examines in several different classes, there is a significant difference in allowances between the classes.  It seems shortsighted that the BDU rate is the only consideration for "acceptable" fluctuations in allowances (e.g. an examiner who looks at x2 as many cases in a year will naturally have x2 the allowances).  He glosses over the example of business methods having lots of bogus patents, but what about the classes with old technology?  Some stuff is just stale, yet the applications keep rolling in.  He compared the allowances of Surgery (3700) vs. Telecom (2600) (allegedly the same tech field huh what?).  Really there's a difference [sarcasm]?

If Letter Openers and Nuclear Technology had the same BDU, you should expect similar allowance rates?  I understand completely why the USPTO ignored this.  Maybe there is more to it beyond the Abstract (like comparing examiners within the same AU).
« Last Edit: 10-03-12 at 10:02 pm by ex-aminer? »
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