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[bleedingpen]

No no.... that was a poorly written post by me.

We are looking to hire an EE and have been for some time.  No luck. 

[virus_guy]

Wow, congrats, sure hope it works out for you and I'm sure you'll enjoy it more than the prep/pros rat race.  Don't forget about us peanuts in the gallery if it does.

Thanks, I like hanging out on this forum and tell stories about myself with the hope that I might be able to help someone. I'll surely be lingering around even after leaving the prep/pros rat race.

BTW, to the OP, at the moment, I'm a patent agent at a law firm, so I do all manner of preparing and prosecuting applications, patentability and freedom-to-operate opinions, and some random things thrown in. I do a lot of the grunt work.

[Gatorbull84]

So to sum up there are strong job prospects in IP law for electrical and mechanical engineers but not so much in the other fields. And with my degrees its ok, not great, phd's are preferred and I can expect a starting salary in the 60's?

[bleedingpen]

So to sum up there are strong job prospects in IP law for electrical and mechanical engineers but not so much in the other fields. And with my degrees its ok, not great, phd's are preferred and I can expect a starting salary in the 60's?

That's low for a good IP market.  And MEs are not in demand.  Otherwise, everything else looks about right.

[Gatorbull84]

Bleedingpen, with my background what can I expect for a starting salary and also what can I expect 3 years down the road?

[Oh, Crud]

So to sum up there are strong job prospects in IP law for electrical and mechanical engineers but not so much in the other fields. And with my degrees its ok, not great, phd's are preferred and I can expect a starting salary in the 60's?

I hate to be a downer, but I think your summary above is too rosy.  And maybe reading to much into your postings, but I also think you have come around to the point where you may be comforting yourself to go forth and in-debt yourself using unwarranted assumptions based on generalized answers here. 

Yes, there are relatively strong prospects for EEs (but not MEs).  And the prospects for most other fields generally are not strong - or are outright weak.

As for your own degrees, my opinion is that you really need to dig into researching whether these are at all desirable in patent law, and if so, get a feel for how desirable.  Hound your UG career services and alumni contacts people.  Do they know of anyone in your program (several years your senior) who went to LS and might be willing to chat with a younger alum?  Do the R&D to locate patents in your field, see who wrote them, go to their law firm bios and see what their UG is.  Is there a professional engineering association for biological engineers?  Contact them and see what info they may have on members who are patent attorneys, what are hot technologies and patents in the field, etc.  Google your local big cities' bar associations, find their IP Law sections and ask them about patent attorneys in your field.

This part of your post was what really got me ranting:  "with my degrees its ok... and I can expect a starting salary in the 60's".  You have at present absolutely no basis to expect a starting salary in the 60's.  You have no basis to expect ANY starting salary, until and unless you find out that someone with your degrees is at all employable. 

That's the rub - you are not looking at options between high salaries vs. more modest (60's) salaries.  You are looking at options between working in patent law vs. making panini at Panera Bread.

I wish the search function was working on this forum.  In the last three years (when this forum had a lot heavier traffic, before some recent long-term tech issues/downs), we've had many posts from frustrated LS grads, even Tier 1 or Top 14 LS grads, who haven't been able to buy a job.

[Gatorbull84]

Ohcrude, sorry but Im not trying to irritate you just trying to figure this out. Also, I don't mean to sound too optimistic but I assume that I could find some kind of job after graduation (maybe not a good patent job but something). After all if having a BS in Bioengineering, MS in Molecular Medicine, and a JD. If Im not employable than I quit and see no point in trying anything for the rest of my life.


Bleedingpen, I figure Im going to wait till late June to make a decision. Im signed up for the patent law interview thing in Chicago and we find out if we are selected for interviews in late June. If I get a 5 or more interviews Im going to transfer to a part-time school in my hometown and work full-time. If I don't get any interviews Im going to put school on hold and pursue the masters degree and look for work.

Thanks everyone.

[bleedingpen]

Bleedingpen, with my background what can I expect for a starting salary and also what can I expect 3 years down the road?

Small markets and/or small firms will probably start you around 80-100k.

Good markets and/or larger firms will probably start you around 100-120k.

The biggest firms are going to start you around 130-150k. 

But the biggest issue is going to be finding employment.  If you can land that first job, then you should expect to make roughly 20-30k more in year 3 than in year 1.  However, if you never find that first job, well shit.  And if you happen to go 6 months to a year after law school without a job, it's game over at that point.  You will be forgotten in favor of the next year's graduating class. 

Let me be clear about something though--- the life sciences field is absolutely destroyed right now.  Experienced attorneys can't find work. 

If you really want to ride out this patent law thing, you need to do one of two things:

1) Move to DC or other hotbed IP market where job prospects are much better; or
2) Go to night school while working, again, in a good IP market. 

You sound like you want to go home real bad.  I am guessing that home is Florida for you.  If you go to L school in Florida, you are going to seriously hurt your chances.  Go to DC, get some experience and go ahead and sit for the Florida bar.  You will find firms in Florida are much more interested in you once you get that 2nd year of experience.  Before year 2, associates are an absolute financial and time drain on firms.

[Oh, Crud]

Ohcrude {{freudian slip?}}, sorry but Im not trying to irritate you just trying to figure this out. Also, I don't mean to sound too optimistic but I assume that I could find some kind of job after graduation (maybe not a good patent job but something). After all if having a BS in Bioengineering, MS in Molecular Medicine, and a JD. If Im not employable than I quit and see no point in trying anything for the rest of my life.

No need to apologize, I'm not irritated, I'm just ranting (i.e., I LIKE ranting so you're doing me a favor).  Just trying to get you to challenge your base assumptions and hopefully see clearly.  One thing you may assume from the common wisdom is that the JD will be an asset (hey, we "think like lawyers") even for non-legal jobs.  But instead hiring managers will assume a JD seeking a non-law job is a flight risk as soon as the legal market reopens, so it's actually more of a hindrance.

And if you're not employable after having the BS, MS and JD, that's the economy and not your personal fault.  Look at your own school's stats for class of 2011.  Sure, they report over 80% employment rate.  But digging into the actual numbers, out of 462 grads, only 96 obtained long-term employment in law firms.  That's under 21%.  Even worse, less than 13% have employment in 10-lawyer (or bigger) firms.  Who knows whether the other 8% in the "2-10 lawyer" firms joined established firms as associates, or are really 2 or more newgrads banding together and hanging a shingle. 

Bleedingpen, I figure Im going to wait till late June to make a decision. Im signed up for the patent law interview thing in Chicago and we find out if we are selected for interviews in late June. If I get a 5 or more interviews Im going to transfer to a part-time school in my hometown and work full-time. If I don't get any interviews Im going to put school on hold and pursue the masters degree and look for work.
Thanks everyone.

I hope you have great luck with Loyola.  This is a good, eyes-open approach...

[virus_guy]

No need to apologize, I'm not irritated, I'm just ranting (i.e., I LIKE ranting so you're doing me a favor).  Just trying to get you to challenge your base assumptions and hopefully see clearly.  One thing you may assume from the common wisdom is that the JD will be an asset (hey, we "think like lawyers") even for non-legal jobs.  But instead hiring managers will assume a JD seeking a non-law job is a flight risk as soon as the legal market reopens, so it's actually more of a hindrance.

I agree with ohcrud with this point. I've interviewed a lot recently and applied to a lot of jobs in an attempt to break out of my current job. What seems to be happening, to me at least, is that I don't get calls for jobs in which I don't fit like a glove. I mean, I know that I might be a bit over-qualified for some and maybe a bit under-qualified for others, but I never hear from those positions. The ones I do hear from are the ones where my resume is basically a mirror image of the job description. So on this aspect, ohcrud makes a good point that having a JD for a non-legal job might be hindrance more than an asset. It's all about fit.

Also, this might not be you, but don't get lulled into the idea that you can go back to the fields where your previous BS and MS degrees are in, i.e. returning to do research or work in a lab in bioengineering or molecular medicine, for example, AFTER you finish law school. I had thought about this, but others have said that it's very difficult to go back once you have the JD on your resume. Even if you inconspicuously left it out, you'd have a hard time accounting for 3 years of no work. I think I read somewhere on this forum where someone gave up a really well-paying job in industry to go law school, but wasn't able to find a patent job after graduating, but also couldn't go back to the old job.

[bleedingpen]

Go run your school's numbers here:

http://employmentsummary.abaquestionnaire.org/

Keep in mind that these numbers are probably cooked......

[Gatorbull84]

thanks

[Oh, Crud]

Go run your school's numbers here:

http://employmentsummary.abaquestionnaire.org/

Keep in mind that these numbers are probably cooked......

Whoops!  Thanks BP - that's where I got the info I quoted above, but neglected to provide the link.  ("Look at your own school's stats for class of 2011.  Sure, they report over 80% employment rate.  But digging into the actual numbers, out of 462 grads, only 96 obtained long-term employment in law firms.  That's under 21%.  Even worse, less than 13% have employment in 10-lawyer (or bigger) firms.  ")

[bleedingpen]

These are very sobering numbers........Glad I graduated when I did.

[Gatorbull84]

Thanks a lot.

My school places 50% in long-term jd work. The way I see it is that I have two options. First, I can transfer to a school in my home state, pass the patent bar, work while in school, and network like crazy. I do have a lot of contacts back home and I know a lot of people.

Second, I can take the year off and get a second masters in Biomedical Engineering and see if I get a job with that. If I don't I will return to law school (they give us 6 or 7 years to complete our jd).

I applied to 3 schools in my home state (2 ranked above but not by much and 1 ranked below by about 60 spots). The two that are ranked above are very cheap and the one below is the roughly the same price but I have a job in that city. Also, the one ranked below is actually pretty well-respected in my home town. I have already been accepted to the masters program and registered for classes just in case.

Im going to base my decision off of tomorrows results from the Loyola Patent thing. If I get 3 or more interviews Im going to finish law school.

The only really crappy part is that I filed a leave of absence from my current school. So, lets say I get a few interviews but than I get rejected from each of my three transfer apps......I will be screwed.


Im worried about my ability to transfer because all of my grades were average except one A- and one C. I've heard that to transfer to any school you need to be in the top 1/3rd and I am only around the median. Not sure if it matters that Im trying to transfer laterally and down.