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[spartan45]

I don't see this is "as dumb as it gets."

I was going to pay sticker and get locked into working off 200k in debt by slaving away at a big law firm. My background (BS in physics) wouldn't allow me to practice in patent prosecution so I would also have been locked into litigation. I feel like having some experience at the PTO will open up more doors from me down the road. I am not planning to be a career examiner.

[+12]

Wait, the PTO is both a "one way ticket to numptyland" and a stepping stone for some very respectable practitioners?  Wouldn't the latter suggest that going to the PTO is not such a dead end for a first job?  I also recall that Klav eventually got tired of BigLaw hours and even considered going back to the PTO.  That certainly suggests that reasonable people with personal knowledge of both life styles can chose being an examiner with a life outside of work, over being a prestigious BigLaw lawyer with BigLaw hours.

And that's not even taking into account the huge amount of non-dischargeable debt now needed to fund a top law degree.  I believe the two attorneys you mentioned worked parttime in law school and got tuition paid for by their employers - that's not an option for OP anymore.  That debt will be around even if OP discovers, at the end of a prestigious summer associateship, that he or she hates the practice of law the fire of a thousand dying suns.  That debt will be around if the legal industry implodes and only YLS grads can get jobs.  That debt, even in a best case scenario, will take 5 years of BigLaw or 10 years of PSLF (note that the PTO doesn't offer any loan forgiveness programs) to pay off.

This is not to say that OP can't decide a year from now that he or she really wants patent litigation.  If anything, a year or two of experience at the PTO will distinguish him or her from the generic straight-to-law-school 25 year old JD.

Look around these boards and you'll find quite a few bright, articulate examiners who decided "numptyland" and having a life outside of work is not so bad, compared to a massive debt and the uncertainties of the legal job market.  I don't understand why you must deride and mock their career choices.

[horsechute]

You keep assuming the worst case about student debt. What about going part-time to U Chicago, and having a firm pick up the tab, like our ubiquitous other two people? And, well, working summers? Or getting a scholarship? Law school doesn't have to be a debtors prison where they brand your thumbs when you leave. Of course, you can work at the PTO and go to Georgetown, but then you have to compete with people who worked in law firms and can already draft patent applications. Just see how far PTO experience without working in a law firm will get you these days. If he works for the PTO for 2 years and leaves, then fine. But a lot of people at the PTO started out strong like, him, and ended up, after ten or fifteen years, tripping over their feet and falling down manholes. The only reason you see attorneys there now is because of the job market. During the tech boom of the early 200's, the PTO lost more than half of the examiners in a short period of time (2-3 years, as I recall, with a 17 percent turnover).

A U Chicago degree is something to be proud of for life. Having once worked at the PTO just proves that you probably can write an office action that combines a glass of beer with a shovel.

Anyway, sorry about getting personal, I won't use the phrase numptyland anymore.
 

[+12]

I don't personally know any hard luck examiner stories but I do know a dumpster truck load of partners, associates, and a few agents who lost their job post 2008, through no fault of their own.  It's a lot easier to fire an at will law firm employee than to fire a gs-14 examiner. 

UChicago has no night school.  No school above GULC has a night school.

With a physics bs, there is no chance of working as a patent agent or BigLaw 1L summer associate.  Summer associate pay might pay back $25-35k of the loan, if the position was in Chicago.  Though it makes more sense to bank the money for bar exam, bar trip, and moving instead.

We're talking about a huge amount of non-dischargeable loans at 7% interest.  There are biglaw washouts now doing doc review or volunteering, ask them if they can live on pride and pedigree alone.

If it was 1996, I would be more encouraging about going straight to law school, tuition was lower and job prospect was far brighter.  But its 2012, the economy looks sucky for the foreseeable future, patent law is almost as saturated as the legal field as a whole, and tuitions have doubled.  Encouraging a young person to just unreflectively plow ahead against such headwind is, in my opinion, quite irresponsible.

[+12]

If you can secure a full UChicago scholarship or tuition paid patent agent position for OP in Chicago, I will be most happy to agree that you're 100% right about everything, and OP should send in a deposit for class of 2015 immediately.

[Oh, Crud]

I don't see this is "as dumb as it gets."
I was going to pay sticker and get locked into working off 200k in debt ...

It's not.  IMHO, you've carefully considered  your situation and come to a reasonable, responsible decision under the circumstances.  (Oh, I do quibble a bit with the "200k" presumption and at least in part agree with Horsechute (GASP) below.  The amounts of money students are told by FinAid offices they "need" to borrow is (again, IMHO) near scandalous.  Still, even if you wait tables (e.g.) for food and essentials and only borrow the minimum otherwise needed, it's a lot of debt.  Particularly given this environment.)

Even if you don't end up in 3-4 years finding a firm willing to cover LS tuition, the law schools will still be around then, right?  As long as you're careful with your earnings in the interim you should have a fairly nice bank to rely on and not have to drown yourself in debt.

Wait, the PTO is both a "one way ticket to numptyland" and a stepping stone for some very respectable practitioners?  Wouldn't the latter suggest that going to the PTO is not such a dead end for a first job?  I also recall that Klav eventually got tired of BigLaw hours and even considered going back to the PTO.  That certainly suggests that reasonable people with personal knowledge of both life styles can chose being an examiner with a life outside of work, over being a prestigious BigLaw lawyer with BigLaw hours. 

If NumptyLand opens a branch office in/near my town, I would certainly consider trading in the rat race for lifestyle.  Wait - "consider" may be too weak a word.  I'd probably jump at the opportunity.  The family is getting pretty tired of my lack of availability...

[+12]

Had a look at University of Chicago Financial Aid site - it appears that they give some kind of aid to 50% of their class, that's more generous than I expected from a school outside of YHS.  http://www.law.uchicago.edu/prospective/financialaid.  Still, it is estimating $70,935 for 2011-2012.  So $200K doesn't seem far off the mark.  I don't think a newly graduated physics BS can get a parttime job that can take out more than a small portion of that cost.

(Sorry to be so combative - I once gave mildly law school friendly advice to a girl who ended up attending T14.  I recently heard that she got Lathamed in 2009 and is now trying to go back to computer programming.  I'm atoning for my sins.)

[IsolatedSystem]

OP:

Congratz on the May start date and the UChi acceptance. I'm at GWU part-time atm and starting at the PTO March 12th in TC1700 (Master's in physical chem, BS in chem engr).

If you can get into UChi, you can probably get a substantial scholarship at GULC. GS-7 pay plus a scholarship will easily cover your tuition and living expenses (assuming you're single). Also, a year or two at the PTO is nearly priceless ITE if you're going into patent law. Nobody wants to hire someone who's totally green, but if you've got a year or two of exposure, suddenly you look infinitely more attractive.

Also, as others have pointed out, if you still want UChi in a year it's yours. You made the right call.

[bald & chained]

You keep assuming the worst case about student debt. 

Paranoia rules, dude and correctly so.  Those who prepare for worst case scenarios by building fallout shelters and avoiding unnecessary debt are the ones who survive after the nuclear Apocalypse... or at least after the economic crapstorms, such as the recent one in 2008-2009, when TONs of well-qualified summer associates from fancy schools got no-offered after their summers.  You bet they were proud of their prestigious law schools, but unfortunately had no relevant experience and lots of non-dischargeable student loans.

So it seems totally reasonable to me to avoid huge student loans if one can help it, but maybe not in the Horsechute land, which seems a bit unaware of the current economic realities (and come on, man, everyone knows UChicago doesn't have part-time program nor can you work more than 20hrs/week under the ABA guidelines)...

[Oh, Crud]

So it seems totally reasonable to me to avoid huge student loans if one can help it, but maybe not in the Horsechute land, which seems a bit unaware of the current economic realities (and come on, man, everyone knows UChicago doesn't have part-time program nor can you work more than 20hrs/week under the ABA guidelines)...

Guidelines, Schmidelines.  I follow DADT / WTABADK,WHTABA.

[horsechute]

Why not go work in Techspec land at Finnegan Henderson, where they pay your tuition, at least after some point? The PTO is not going to have their law school reimbursement program back for a long time, if ever.

Everyone knows UCHI law does not have a part-time program? Dude, what have you been smoking?

[+12]

As I said before, I am willing to admit that you're 100% right (including the U of C blurbs), if you you can hook OP up with a tech specialist position that comes with full tuition reimbursement or a full U of C scholarship.

(Above promise made with the caveat that said position or scholarship exists somewhere outside of Horsechute Land.)

[IsolatedSystem]

lol, entry level (0 experience) techspec/agent jobs are practically nonexistent right now, much less ones offering tuition reimbursement.

OP:

Also, a year or two at the PTO is nearly priceless ITE if you're going into patent law. Nobody wants to hire someone who's totally green, but if you've got a year or two of exposure, suddenly you look infinitely more attractive.

[horsechute]

Good question about techspec availability and tuition reimbursement. Does Techspec land - I mean Finnegan Henderson - still pay?

[bald & chained]

Good question about techspec availability and tuition reimbursement. Does Techspec land - I mean Finnegan Henderson - still pay?

I presume so, but that's really a question for Klav.  I was never a citizen of that particular land.