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[spartan45]

Hi All,

I Just got offered a GS-7 patent examiner position with the USPTO. I have also been admitted to a T6 law school. I would eventually like to practice in patent law and have no full time work experience. I was thinking about deferring my admission to the school (my absolute dream school) and working for the PTO. Any thoughts on what I should do?

[miltonian]

I would go to the T6 law school.

[+12]

I highly recommend taking the PTO position and deferring.  You'll lose very little and you may gain much by doing so.

If you find out that you like being an examiner and don't want to be a patent lawyer, then you can enjoy a job with a great work-life balance and GS-14/15 pay in 4-5 years (about $125-140K per year, or up to $155K with overtime - working far fewer total hours than at law firms) without the hassle and expense of more school. Successful patent litigators can earn far more than that - but they also work very very hard and be very lucky to get to that point.

If you decide you don't like law at all, then quit the PTO and do something else, and be thankful that you didn't spend $200-250K + three years of your life chasing after something you don't even want.

If you like working at the PTO but still want to be a lawyer, then you can go to school parttime in one of five area law schools.  Good grades from GULC or GWU will open similar patent law doors as T6, except perhaps Chicago WRT legal academia.  It's tough but you can get out with significantly less debt and have the option of continuing at the PTO if patent law doesn't pan out.

Even if you end up hating the PTO and leaving for law school - you're still getting patent law experience that can help distinguish you and help you get 1L and 2L summer jobs.

2 things to keep in your mind when making your career decision - you can ignore this if you come from a rich and well connected family because this won't apply to you:

$200-250K nondischargeable debt that you'll likely accumulate for the T6 dream school will be paid back with after tax dollars.  Even if you're being paid $160K+bonus, it'll likely take 5+ years of frugal living that pay that amount back.  If you're unlucky (quite likely since most BigLaw first years don't last 5+ years) and can't keep a BigLaw job for 5+ years, you may be in a very unhappy place indeed.

U.S. law schools and law industry is just starting to deal with the reality of too many heavily indebted lawyers chasing too few (and likely to be fewer in time, due to structural changes such as automation and outsourcing) jobs.  This overcrowding is happening in patent law just as it is elsewhere - you can read here about all the disaffected engineers and Ph.Ds looking to get out of academic/industry.  And it's affecting CCN grads too - take a look at comments from Paul Campos's latest post - recent Columbia and NYU 3L/grads are estimating 30-40% unemployment at graduation for their classes.

[spartan45]

Thanks for the replies. I am certainly leaning toward the USPTO.

[horsechute]

I am not in total agreement with +12, though he makes a few good points.

If you start at GS-7, how are you going to be able to afford a school like GWU without going into the kind of debt he mentioned? Also, it would likely take a while at the PTO before you would have the time to start law school, and even at that, doing the PTO gig while going to school and trying to maintain a decent GPA is not easy at all.

It would be interesting to know the school, since a law school like Stanford or Berkeley is in/near silicon valley, where there would be more and better job opportunities than the DC area, in my opinion.

Also, if you really have the talent for law, which you apparently do, you might find that patent law is not what you want to do, and the PTO experience would be a waste. Especially for someone who is, like I said, apparently legally talented. Patent examining consists mostly of searching for references. It would be a waste.

I agree with Miltonian. Go to the T6 school.

[bald & chained]

I'd do neither   Anyways, +12 has a very valid point about debt.  If you were able to get into T6, you also should have gotten into Gtown.  The nice thing about DC is that you can work in the PTO or a firm during the day and go to Gtown at night.  Maybe a firm will pick up your tuition.  It's painful and takes longer, but it also saves you a crapload of money and the tradeoff in prestige or opportunities is not huge, assuming you want to stay in patent law.  I graduated 5 years ago and my friends from T6 are still paying off their huge loans, while I've never had real loans to begin with...

The problem with going to really prestigious and really expensive schools is that they tend to lock you into a certain career path whether you want it or not because of the associated debt.

[spartan45]

Thank you so much for the replies. The school is Chicago and the salary for the job is GS-7. I am pretty torn.

[+12]

OP is deferring the T6 (code for CCN and not YHS) acceptance, not rejecting it.  He or she still has the option of attending next year, if PTO doesn't work out.  Indeed, he or she might be close enough to YHS that with a better LSAT or luck, there might be shot at those schools next year. 

In my opinion, even if it was a YHS acceptance, it's better to defer in this case because OP has no full time work experience.  Having a real job and paying bills from your paycheck can change your perspective on what prestige, career, free time, and debt really means.  $250,000 of school debt is an abstract number until you try to live on $4,000 a month and realize what servicing a $2,500/month debt would mean. 

Patent examining isn't for everyone and there are more prestigious jobs for the pre-law track.  If I was OP, I'd try for an engineering or research job because that's I've been trained for and I should give it a go first before turning to other paths.  However, it's a tough job market even for extremely qualified grads and a PTO job in hand might a better option than the actually available alternatives.  An examiner job would give OP more options and experiences, which allow him or her to make a more informed decision a year from now.  That's far better than blowing through to law school, saddled to a life changing amount of debt and a more limited set of career options. 

OP - Horsechute's comments have their merits, but he is extremely anti-patent office.  How happy you'll be at the PTO depends largely on your SPE and art area, and somewhat on your personality and work habits.  Some people who have years of work and academic experience are very happy there, while other people leave very quickly.  If you do go to the PTO, go with an open mind.

[+12]

PS - GS-7 qualify for two accelerated (6 months) promotions to GS-9 and GS-11, so where you start off doesn't dramatically affect your pay after a year or two.  GS-7 pay won't pay for the insane GWU or GULC tuition, but GS-14 pay can if you live frugally.  I've seen successful BigLaw attorneys come out of American, Catholic, and GMU, so don't discount those schools if they provide a big enough scholarship.

I think law school grades are more about luck and being able to study smart, than studying hard.  A day spent going over a professor's old exam/sample answers and outlines created by law review editors is worth more than a month of outlining textbooks.  It's tough to work and go to school at the same time, but it is possible to do if you're single or have a very supportive spouse.

The PTO no longer reimburses for law school tuition.  I doubt it ever will again, given the number of JD/PhDs scrambling to get in.  I haven't heard of any law firm tuition reimbursements for the past two years, though perhaps that's still available for exceptional candidates or at cheap schools. 

[LE36]

I expect that the PTO will bring back law school tuition sometime over the next couple years.  With the new budget and purposed fee increases, they will have ample money to spend.

[Uri Cohen]

I highly recommend taking the PTO position and deferring too, is a very good oportunity...

[spartan45]

Just an update. I have taken the PTO job and will start may 7th. Thanks for all of the input!

[horsechute]

"Horsechute's comments have their merits, but he is extremely anti-patent office"

I am glad I do not seem to have lost my professional standing during the spam outage...

[+12]

I would call it an avocation  

OP's decision should cheer you up.  He or she will likely make a highly competent examiner.  Shouldn't patent prosecutors want smart and motivated examiners on the other side?

[horsechute]

If I have any slight bias against the PTO, then putting it aside, I think trading an offer to go to U Chicago Law for a one way ticket to numptyland is about as dumb as it gets. But since he seems intent on doing it, just remember that some of our more popular posters in this forum were up and out of the PTO in about 2 years and working at Finnegan, where they paid for their law school tuition. So 2 years on the rock is perhaps not a bad idea, but just don't make a career out of it.