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[Wiscagent]

“... going to school at night is hard. ... get home around 11-12 (assuming some studying after class) & get up at 7-8. Four times a week. Deadlines at work, finals in the school. Not that much fun.  This kind of lifestyle definitely suits older, married people, ...”

I started going to graduate school at night.  About one month into the semester, we found out that my wife was pregnant.  I finished the semester, but then missed a year of school because I wanted to be home with my wife and the baby when I wasn’t at work.  After the third time of going to school and then finding out that she was pregnant, I gave up on grad school.  PS – we then had a fourth child.

I admire and respect people who can go to school part-time, work full-time, and maintain a decent family life.  But I was unable to do it.  I’m glad to say that I was able to set priorities: my family and my day job are more important than an advanced degree.  No complaints, that’s just how it worked out for me.  Everyone has a different story.

By the way, our youngest will be graduating college soon.  I was thinking of going to law school, but the closest law schools are 100 miles away so I’ll probably pass on that.

One bit of advice I will offer –Don’t let other people define for you what is ‘success’.  Take some time and decide what’s important to you.  And don’t be surprised if your priorities change in a few years.


Richard Tanzer

[PiP]

TS - Ha!  Think of all the good times you could have by substituting wh*re for sleep...lol.  You bring some excellent points.  As I consider applying for part time versus full, I am very concerned about being able to balance job versus school, as you point out.  Having looked into clerkships, I did notice that patent agents at a lot of firms in NYC were going to NYU or Fordham at the same time.  So I guess their firms are paying for them and giving them reduced workload.  If I ran a firm I'd have some majorly high future expectations for anyone that I'd pay for to attend school + their salary!

From RTs story, I think full time is probably a lot better to just get the law school bs overwith (since I am without commitments so far.)  

Thanks for your opinions, guys!!!

I hope I get into at least one decent school.

[ACD]

I think I could finally put things into perspective.  After talking to actually patent lawyers who have years of experience I was somewhat able to tally-up my analysis.

PiP, you are taking a perfect road by acquiring your PhD because in your field of study a higher degree would be acceptable.  Since I am an engineer a BS would be suffice but I would still have to worry about my competition.  I spoke with some of the admission representatives of law schools here in NYC and they all basically said the same thing: "there are no set guidelines by which they accept their candidates for law school but a higher degree and some work experience is plus"  

So with that I would pursue my Master of Engineering (or Master of Science depending on if I would like to spend an extra year above the MEng) at Columbia, Cornell, MIT, Princeton, Carnegie, or Univ. of Michigan (Tech Spec what your input here?)  Then with a higher technical degree a patent agent position would be of an easier grasp for me.

Now with about 1 year patent agent experience, a MEng degree or MS degree and some corporate experience a resume should stand out when it comes to looking for that summer associate position in a law firm.

From the lawyers I spoke with, they said that the best way to start of a patent litigation career is to know some prosecution (this is not a requirement but heavily accepted) and what better way to get such experience than from my summer internships while in law school.

With all this accomplished by the time I graduate law school (approx. 5 or 6 years from now) I could eventually start in a law firm doing litigation.

After all I realize that nothing comes easy and since I am young I should not be too hurry to start law school right away.

Any input?

[tech spec]

My input?  Well, an MEng from any of the schools you've listed will make you feel good   Personally, I got mine because it was free and only took a year.  Then, I spent 5 years in the industry where my MEng arguably gave me some weight.  You, however, are thinking of getting your Masters purely to improve your credentials for law school/law firms.  Honestly, I don't think it's worth the time for that specific purpose. Since you are for Ivy undegrad and have discent grades (make sure to explain the drop in your grades in a letter to law school admissions), if you do well on LSAT, you should have a good chance of getting into a top 25 or maybe even top 14 school.  


If you do well in law school, you will not have a problem getting an IP litigation position.  Patent litigation positions are law-school-credentials-heavy (when compared to patent prosecution positions).  Most firms require some technical background, but in my firm, we have bio/chemisty people litigating EE patents, so it's not a  huge factor.  They all did Law Review, however  

On the other hand, if you want to prosecute, MEng and practical experience may give you additional credibility with the clients.  Thus, it's hard to say whether Meng is worth getting purely for the sake of Meng.  The sooner you go to law school, the sooner you'll start getting $125K salary, assuming your other credentials are good.

PS. I don't think an outside student can get a EE MEng in MIT. You'll have to get an MS.

[ACD]

Thanks for your input Tech Spec (it seems more vital than what some actual IP attorneys told me).  Well at least I still have one more year to bring my grades back to its competitive edge from where it was. That would be my goal for this senior year.
My summer job is planning to extend a full time offer for me to start working with them when I graduate.  As I stated in my earlier posts, I do not really don't want to work as an engineer and would like to probably start off working in a law firm (i.e. a law clerk or something low) before I start law school.  Would I do more harm if I turn them down?  I plan to work for a year and within that year take the LSAT and apply to law school for the following fall semester.  I know its ultimately hard finding a job in a law firm with no legal knowledge though but I still know that it’s not impossible.
It would be considered unethical from a business perspective if I come to work with this company for just one year and leave to pursue a different endeavor (i.e. patent law) so that's why I was thinking of trying to work in a law firm as oppose to a technical company.  Is this good or bad?
Btw - how were able to pull off your job in a law firm?....is it in NYC?...what's their perspective on students in my predicament?

[PiP]

Ya, I would also like to know how you pulled it off, TechSpec...?  U're in perfect situation, sounds like!

ACD, I don't think that people will find it v unethical if you work for them for a year and then jet.  In considering postdoc opportunities for me while I wait for law school, I thought that it would be really bad of me to start somewhere and then quit to go do law.  The people I ran the idea past didn't really get phased by it, on a moral level or otherwise!  However, it is hard for me to accept that level of ambivalence.  How can you want someone to work for you and then not care very much if he/she leaves?  I think that a big change of fields suggests that you have made a life-altering choice that should be supported, but it still seems wrong somehow.  Anyone else got feedback on this?

Also, the administrator needs to change the forum so that when you are replying to a message, the most recent messages appear beneath the reply window.  Would make it easier.

[bald & chained]

Getting a technical specialist position is not easy, but it can be done. It's easier to do around DC/NY/Boston where there are many patent firms. Go to http://www.infirmation.com/bboard/clubs.tcl?topic=Greedy%20IP and search for TECHADV (or pull up msg 42501 and look up search codes for other useful stuff as well, such as litigation vs prosecution).  Some of the messages on that board are very useful for identifying which firms have tech. specialist programs, how much they pay, etc.

I landed my job because I have decent grades at a decent law school, good undergrad degree from a top engineering program, and some previous industry/patent experince.  I doubt you need all of that to land a job, but it helps, in my opinion, to have either good (read marketable) engineering experience in the area in which the firm is prosecuting patents or a flashy degree, such as EE from MIT/Berkeley. Or PTO experience. Or, just get lucky and hit on a firm which really, really needs someone and doesn't mind training. It really varies.

However, one advice I could give for finding a tech spec. position is to do research before sending out a ton of resumes.  You will be most likely hired for your technical knowledge, so find a firm that prosecutes/litigates in the area that you are an expert.  It will be much easier to sell yourself to a firm if they think you can help them with technical details.  Once you identify some firms that recruit tech. specialists, go on PTO's website and figure out if these firms file patents in your background. If yes, there is a good chance they will be interested in you.

[PiP]

Some of my favorite highlights from that thread:

"...Oh, and you have to supervise all those associates and review and be responsible for all of their work, too. This can lead to a side effect of multiple spouse syndrome.

Think of being an associate going for the brass ring of partnership as a pie-eating contest. If you win, you get the prize--MORE pie!"