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[tanai]

Hi

I have a BSME from University of Washington and worked for a very big oil refinery for 1.5 years before I decided to go to law school. I'm in a top 50 law school and is ranked in the top 1/3 of the class. I'm graduating in May so I recently started looking for patent attorney jobs. Sadly, entry level patent attorney positions are pretty much non-existence. Seems like they all want at least one year of experience. I don't have any student loan and have enough money saved up that I would be willing to work for free for a year just to get experience (as a volunteer or whatever). My question is are IP firms interested in this? Should I even bother?

Also, I have some connections in Thailand and I could get a job working as a patent attorney there for a while. Would that make me more valuable to US IP firms?

Any advice is appreciated.

[UVAgal4]

I am not sure about whether firms can even take someone on for free, for liability reasons.
And sorry but nobody cares about IP patent experience in Thailand. If it were Europe, China, Japan, or Korea, then maybe, but not Thailand.

[bleedingpen]

Where are you located now?

[LawStudent2011]

I have a BSME and graduated this past May and offered to work for free for several IP firms in the area and none of them were willing to take me on for liability reasons. As such, I am currently working for a company as a patent attorney and assist a local big law firm retained by the company with drafting and filing patent and trademark applications. Further, given that I don't have any debt, I am considering pursing my BSEE (need 54 credit hours) by attending a local university on a part-time basis while continuing to work full time. Hopefully, the BSME and BSEE combo will make me more marketable when firms start hiring again.

[Yak]

I ran into the same barrier when I requested to work for free for a few local patent attorneys after graduation, when I was in the same boat you are in now.

[DGL]

I was/am in a similar situation: BS/MS in ME with 7 years experience in industry (graduated JD May 2011, top 20%).  I received little-to-no interest after offering to work for free for numerous local firms.  One of the firms did eventually hire me part-time, but they insisted on paying me.

I plan to relocate (I hate where I live now) and have had 3 in-person interviews (still waiting to hear back from the last one).

Have you taken the patent bar?

Good luck.

[LawStudent2011]

DGL and tanai, have either of you considered going back to school to obtain an EE degree? I was just curious to see if other ME's out there were considering this path.

[Yak]

I wasn't asked, but since I have an ME also I will chime in.  I have not considered getting a second BSEE, mainly just because of the time to get another BS.  But I am considering a Masters of Engineering with a concentration in EE/CE.  I am still investigating whether the MoE would be attractive to potential firms looking for E/CE background. 

[LawStudent2011]

Yak, I agree, the amount of time required to get the BSEE does make me have second thoughts. I want to keep my current position and continue to learn as much as I can drafting patent applications, so I'm currently considering taking 6 credit hours a semester and continuing to work full-time. At that rate, I am looking at 3 years, taking classes during the fall, spring, and summer. How long would the MoE you are considering take? Also, are you planning on working at the same time?

[DGL]

I actually had a recruiter recommend that I should get a MSEE a few months ago.  I almost squirted water out of my nose when he said it.  I would need to quit my position at the firm where I work now to go back to school.

No, I have no interest in going back to get a 4th degree.  I think my experience at a law firm is more valuable - not to mention that it may lead to full time employment with the firm.

Unless things change drastically, I plan to persevere working the engineering job and at the firm at night until I get a full time offer.  I am still waiting to hear back from my most recent in-person interview so fingers are crossed.

[plex]

Yes, the best option is to work part-time doing prosecution work for a trainee's pay, you would definitely hit a wall offering to work for free.  I don't think the huge amount of time and expense additional degrees would require is worth it.  Even a BSEE isn't a golden ticket these days, it is hard for anyone starting out in the past few years unless they have been spending decades of their adult life in school, or if they have unbelievably good grades.

[LawStudent2011]

Plex, so you believe it would be a waste of time to pursue the BSEE? What would you recommend for someone in my situation? Would it be better to simply read books on EE subjects as they pertain to the application I may be presently working on?

P.S.

I apologize for hijacking your original post tanai.

[bleedingpen]

lawstudent, no one is going to care that you read books on ee subjects.  all they care about is the ee degree.

someone mentioned recruiters in this thread--- let's be clear, recruiters don't give a rat's ass about you, all they want to do is place you in a job, collect a third of your first year's paycheck and hope you want to move jobs again at some later point so they can cash in on you again.

and if you are a first year attorney, lol at working with recruiters. recruiters almost never place first year attorneys and are looking for experienced hires (for the most part).  they are just piling up your resume so that they can call you in a year or two when you have some experience so that they may be able to place you in a corporate job.

sorry for the lack of capitalization.  been a long day. 

[plex]

I think you are in a tough spot lawstudent, just like 90% of the people from the last three years of graduating classes that were planning to go into prosecution.  For some it is tougher than others, the people who didn't have much hope, even with a law degree, now have a better idea that they should give up and move on, but for those with a background that suits a few openings it is tough. 

It's especially bad for the bio guys who have to consider whether they want to go through at least five more years of school on top of law school if they want to seriously look attractive.  Medical doctors don't even have to go through that much crap to reach a point where they are getting paid a decent wage, and they certainly have more job security.

The very best thing you can get is experience, and while getting yet another degree will help somewhat, it is a gigantic additional investment that will only help with finding a prosecution job, so it is a high risk/low return option to take.

[tanai]

Thanks everyone for your input

To answer a few questions:
I have not taken the patent bar. I'm planning on doing that probably around August (after I graduate and have taken the state bar exam). I'm hoping after I pass the patent bar, I'll become more attractive to employers.
I will not be going back to school for BSEE, like some of you said, it's probably not worth the time and expenses, plus, I took a few EE classes as an undergrad and never really enjoyed them.

I like the idea of trying to get part-time prosecution work to start with. Are those positions pretty common? Also, other than just emailing out my resumes to firms, do you guys have any other suggestions for someone in my position?