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[khazzah]

Any idea on how much does a average senior patent attorney makes? 

IMHO, the amount of variation here makes the "average" almost useless.

At BigLaw, senior (8-10 year) associates make well over $200K in major legal markets, and I'd guess closer to $250K in the most expensive markets. Plenty of partners make way more than that.

OTOH, plenty of those 5+ year patent attorneys who started at BigLaw leave to go inhouse, which often results in drop in salary, at least for a while. Or go to a much smaller firm/their own firm. The income for those guys is all over the place, from guys that don't have much of a client base and struggle to earn $100K, to guys are limited only by the amount of work they choose to do.

Then there are plenty of other 5+ year patent attorneys who never earned $200K in the first place because they never worked at BigLaw.

For attorneys employed by law firms, the strongest predictor of salary is always the size of the law firm. Patent law is no different.

[klaviernista]

Any idea on how much does a average senior patent attorney makes? 

As Khazzah mentioned, it depends on the firm, the market, and to some extent, the attorney himself.  Some senior attorneys (non-partiners) will make well over 250k, whereas others make significantly less.

[Gatorbull84]

Hey guys thanks a lot for all of the information. You guys gave me a lot to think about. I seriously doubt that I will even get a interview for the patent examiner position, because I never have any luck with online applications. If by some chance I do get a interview and somehow get the job my main concern is if its worth staying in school acquiring more debt with the possibility of coming out making 70K a year. The future of the legal field freaks me out, and I already have a good amount of debt from grad school and undergrad.

Thanks again guys

[bleedingpen]

Sorry guys, won't bother with really crunching the numbers to take into consideration tax rates, student loan interest and deductions, salary raises, etc.  Way too many variables to get into that discussion.  It won't shift the break even time line more than a year or two in either direction and the net result is still going to be that the patent attorney has 2-3X the earning potential as an Examiner (he did ask about being an Examiner, not an engineer). 

Except that are innumerable presumptions in your calculations.  While there certainly is a high earning potential for a select few, the vast majority do not appear to make that much more then a senior examiner.  It really does boil down to whether you find prosecution a better fit to your personality then examining.

At what experience level do you become a primary examiner?

[horsechute]

Usually about 5 years, sometimes 3 - 4, or 6 - 7 at the tails.

"the vast majority do not appear to make that much more then a senior examiner.  It really does boil down to whether you find prosecution a better fit to your personality then examining"

I don't agree with this. Not at all. The "numbers" are not correct, and what you have to remember is that as an examiner, your (diminishing) skill set consists mostly of the ability to search for references, and there are no alternate forms of employment for this type of skill, as there is only one patent office. That is, unless you want to become a searcher, which is even worse than being an examiner. Of course, you can always become a supervisor at the PTO. That has to seriously be one of the best jobs in the world. 150k for doing very little.

What you have to remember is that examining looks better now through the lens of the recession we are currently in. During the tech boom of the early 2000's, I heard about an electrical examiner who quit to take a job in a law firm with instant partnership and over 200k per year.

Having said that, I never thought I would see experienced patent attorneys begging for work as examiners.
I knew there would be a bad recession some time, but never thought I would see this.

[diditallwrong]

Hi all, I am new here, and I figure this was an appropriate place to ask this question.

I have a EE degree, I graduated a TTT law school with good grades, and I have over a year of experience in IP.

Unfortunately, I am unable to get a permanent position.  I made the law school mistake, and now I am trying to do some damage control.

What are the chances I can get an Examiner position with the USPTO? Is that a decent gig? What's the internal mobility like, job security, transfer options, etc.?

I am not picky since I'm so screwed, but I want to know what I can expect.

[Cronous]

I don't agree with this. Not at all. The "numbers" are not correct

How so? The numbers for the base salary come straight out of the Patent Examiner's salary table for GS-14s and the federal pay cap of $155,500 is pretty standard for many federal employees.

and what you have to remember is that as an examiner, your (diminishing) skill set consists mostly of the ability to search for references, and there are no alternate forms of employment for this type of skill, as there is only one patent office.

I do not think an examiner's skills diminish as much as they plateau.  But then again the whole patent field is pretty much a niche field  anyhow.  It is not like someone who has worked for years doing patent prosecution is somehow accumulating experience to be an engineer or a general practice attorney.  Your options are pretty much to work for another prosecution shop or learn some new skills to get into patent litigation or licensing.

What you have to remember is that examining looks better now through the lens of the recession we are currently in. During the tech boom of the early 2000's, I heard about an electrical examiner who quit to take a job in a law firm with instant partnership and over 200k per year.

Frankly a 200K partner position for an examiner, even during a boom period, seems like a fairy tale especially when you account for inflation. 

Having said that, I never thought I would see experienced patent attorneys begging for work as examiners.
I knew there would be a bad recession some time, but never thought I would see this.

Why not?  The PTO offers competitive wages, good job security, great retirement benefits, high flexibility, and a good work/life balance.  The only real downside is the job is mind numbingly boring and repetitive so burn out is common.

[horsechute]

You have a lot of good points.

Irrespective of what I/you said, I don't think that a senior patent attorney's salary for the DC area compares with a senior examiner's salary. But hey, at 155k, who is complaining? For a single, penny-pinching guy like me, I wouldn't go into my supervisors office and start chucking pineapples if I worked there just because they are going to freeze the raises for yet another year.

I don't think examiner's skills diminish, but they do, like you said, plateau. Which is ok.... But after a few years, any other skills tend to tarnish. Like someone with a recent law degree, of which there are a fair at the PTO, will have it's value eroded over time through non-use, though maybe in view of the hard times, there may be some slack cut. But if you don't use it, you do lose it. And, of course, I have seen exceptions to that. And it is better to be claims adjusting at the PTO than to be one of the large number of unfortunately unemployed.

The 200k salary does sound like a fantasy, it is just something I heard, and to tell you the truth, if you were working in technology at the height of the tech boom, more particularly in communications (he examined a communication art), anything  was possible back then.

Burn out is a problem, but so is working for a bunch of people not qualified to manage a flea circus. And if you examine for more than 10 years, you probably won't be able to find your home in the evening. Better to marry rich or sponge off your parents for as long as possible.

[Gatorbull84]

Does anyone know how long it takes to get selected for a interview after being referred to the selection committee? I still doubt that I will get the position, but I am keeping my fingers crossed.

[plex]

Seems like anywhere from 2-8 weeks.  Probably will be 2-4 weeks since they will want to send out offers by mid Dec.

[Gatorbull84]

thanks a lot