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[tanliqiu]

Hi everyone
I'll get my PhD in Industrial Engineering next summer (May or August 2012). I'm very interested in changing my career path after graduation. I just wonder when should I start contacting the firms and sending out my resume if I'll be available next year? I already started collecting information and figuring out if I'm really interested in this field.  But is it too early for job hunting 10 months in advance? I really appreciate your help.   

[tanliqiu]

Let me ask my question again:

1) Does a Ph.D in industrial engineering helpful for changing career path to patent law?
2) English is not my first language, although I've been trained well about reading and technical writing during my 4-year study in the US. Does the language skill still hurt?
3) If I decided to go find a job as entry level IP technology specialist, and I'll be available since May 2012, when should I start job hunting? I think it's not necessary to start looking for a position too early, is that true in my case?

Sorry I didn't make my question clear because I'm new and have too much thoughts which I need clear. Thanks for help.   

[bleedingpen]

An industrial engineering degree is not desirable in patent law.

[tanliqiu]

An industrial engineering degree is not desirable in patent law.

Thanks for replying. But is it still possible?

[bleedingpen]

An industrial engineering degree is not desirable in patent law.

Thanks for replying. But is it still possible?

Sure.  But odds are stacked against you with your degree. 

[khazzah]

An industrial engineering degree is not desirable in patent law.

Thanks for replying. But is it still possible?

Sure.  But odds are stacked against you with your degree. 

You can confirm this with a little online research. Check out websites of general practice law firms with patent groups and/or of patent boutiques. Take a look at the major/degree of the attorneys at those firms, and I'm certain you'll find that only a small percentage are IE.

[tanliqiu]

a little bit disappointed... But still thanks~

An industrial engineering degree is not desirable in patent law.

Thanks for replying. But is it still possible?

Sure.  But odds are stacked against you with your degree. 

You can confirm this with a little online research. Check out websites of general practice law firms with patent groups and/or of patent boutiques. Take a look at the major/degree of the attorneys at those firms, and I'm certain you'll find that only a small percentage are IE.

[WTF_Over]

Let me ask my question again:

1) Does a Ph.D in industrial engineering helpful for changing career path to patent law?
2) English is not my first language, although I've been trained well about reading and technical writing during my 4-year study in the US. Does the language skill still hurt?
3) If I decided to go find a job as entry level IP technology specialist, and I'll be available since May 2012, when should I start job hunting? I think it's not necessary to start looking for a position too early, is that true in my case?

Sorry I didn't make my question clear because I'm new and have too much thoughts which I need clear. Thanks for help.   

No, you're screwed.

A PhD in IE is understood as Piling it Higher and Deeper as an Imaginary Engineer.  Add a JD to your credentials and you'll have no credibility whatsoever.


Plastics, that's your future now.

[patentatt]

Plastics, that's your future now.

http://youtu.be/PSxihhBzCjk

[UVAgal4]

It isn't impossible, but it will be harder for you than for classical engineers. I think you just need to emphasize what you did learn- ex/ Physics, Chemistry, Basic Circuits, Statics, whatever.
Good luck.

[WTF_Over]

It isn't impossible, but it will be harder for you than for classical engineers. I think you just need to emphasize what you did learn- ex/ Physics, Chemistry, Basic Circuits, Statics, whatever.
Good luck.

I think that is exactly the wrong way to sell the described background.

No one cares about what you learned.  What one studies in college matters very little substantively.  It's all old, known stuff, that anyone with a technical inclination understands intuitively.  It's ancient history - cool that you know it, but insufficient justification to give you a paycheck (unless you're an applying to be an examiner).  Otherwise, it simply doesn't matter.

What matters is that, in undertaking the coursework, you developed (and ideally demonstrated) the requisite skills to absorb skull numbing, obscure, technical subject matter at a sufficient level of comprehension such that you were able to apply it successfully to technical problems.  You get bonus points for convincing the interviewer that you absord such material quickly.

[tanliqiu]

Thanks for all the replys. They really help a lot.

As far as my understanding, IE is definitely not a plus for career path of patent law. But anyone with strong "engineering" thinking that can understand other's invention quickly and express it in an appropriate way should be qualified. EE is preferred because everybody assumes all EEs have been trained well to have the strongest "engineering" sense among all the engineering majors. Of course, "engineering" sense if only one aspect to be successful in patent law and only part of "how much engineering sense you have" is really from your background, either EE or IE. IE is same as any engineering because we are inventing things too, maybe not a real product but a system. In my opinion, patent law doesn't care what you can invent, but the process and idea of "invention" is important. So I still believe a good IE can be good in patent law, because we have most of the same abilities EEs have, and we are doing better when looking at the big pictures.   

I think my best option is to do a test drive to see if I'm truly love this career path and if I'm able to do that. Is that common in this field to find an internship (maybe unpaid :-() first and make the decision after that? Or do you think my resume will be killed directly when the firms see "IE" in my background? If that is the case, it really disappointing but actually make things easier for me.

btw, how bad does the "English is not my first language" affect my patent law route? Thanks.
 
Thanks again for the help. I really learned a lot. 

[khazzah]

So I still believe a good IE can be good in patent law, because we have most of the same abilities EEs have, and we are doing better when looking at the big pictures.   

The issue here isn't your competence. The issue is whether or not an employer will even give you an interview in which you can convince them of your competence, much less try you out in a job in which you can demonstrate your competence. Many law firms have a strict "check box" approach to processing resumes: they're interested in specific degrees, and if you don't meet that criteria, your resume doesn't get past the first filter.

Is that common in this field to find an internship (maybe unpaid :-() first and make the decision after that?

Many law firms do hire folks without a JD: they're called technical specialists or patent agents. So you can do a "test drive" if you can get a job as one of those. But I think your degree is a big hurdle to getting this job for the very same reason I stated above. That is, for all types of patent pros jobs -- tech spec, patent agent, attorney -- employers will focus first on major/degree.

[NJ Patent1]

tanliqiu:  Regret that I must essentially agree w/ khazza.  I know of many “technical advisors” at law firms.  But such are usually MDs, or molecular bio / organic chem. PhDs, w/ a few computer “geeks” in the mix   This does not denigrate your accomplishments, just a brutal factual reality check as I see it. 

IMO a PhD in IE is not a liability per se IF coupled with a JD.  You have attention to and can digest mind-numbing technical minutiae.  However, securing a position as a “technical advisor” for a “trial run” would, IMO, require a healthy dose of serendipity and plain dumb luck.  But a PhD in IE with a JD?  Not as bleak.
 
To be sure, some firms are looking for “a biotech gal” or a “computer guy”.  But some firms with a non-specialized practice might welcome a generalist.  My PhD is in Chemistry.  But w/in 2 months of starting work I was drafting biotech applications.  Augmented with weekends in the science library, my colleagues taught me “transfection” and “DNA amplification”.  I helped them with IUPAC nomenclature and viscoelasticity.  Are you a quick learn?  Convince an interviewer you are.
 
Question to you: why patent law and not a position in your chosen field of IE?  Money?  Starting salaries for PhD/JDs at big-name NY / CA / DC IP boutiques can easily top 140K.  The slots are few and competition fierce.  Many more associates start at ca. 100K (or less!) at non “go to” patent firms. 

Bottom line.  IMO your chances of a “trial run” as a technical advisor are somewhere between slim and none.  Sorry.  But hey, stuff happens.  You may - or may not - get lucky.  Commit to a career in the law and get your JD with highest possible GPA.  Otherwise, not all patent attorneys gross 300K per year and the world needs IEs too.  And there are other areas of law.  PI folks can rake-in a ton of cash.