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[patento]

My profile: BSEE with 13 years of r&d experience (still working in technology..) , finishing JD from 3rd tier law school in 2 months, recently passed patent bar.

I am talking to couple of law firms for patent agent/associate position.  I am expecting one offer from a small law firm (IP prosecution and litigation practice - 10 lawyers...only one office) in San Francisco area.

How much salary (roughly ) could be expected ?

I am also talking to another one, they have a contract position and asking how much I desire per hour. I have no freaking idea.

Any help?

[guest]

I would estimate that you would be offered somewhere between $120,000 and $150,000 starting salary. Just an estimate.

For contract -- I would ask for about $65-85 / hr. This range multiplied by an avg billing requirement of 1900 hrs puts you roughly at the salary range described above. Make sure this is YOUR billing rate to the firm and not the firm's billing rate to the client for work you do.

[patento]

No kidding.

Giving the fact I have no experience in patents and don't have bar membership yet, I was going to ask something like 70K (which is almost half of what I make base + benefits in my current engineering job).

[guest]

This is anonymous1, by the way - just too lazy to login. At our firm, associates are offered positions assuming that they will pass the bar exam. They are given benefits, full salaries, etc. on this assumption. If they cannot pass the bar by the 2nd try (in some cases 3rd), they should start looking elsewhere. Other than that, there is no distinction between associates that have and have not passed the bar.

Experience is not a big deal for a starter - they will teach you.

One word of caution - I'm basing these salary ranges on what would be offered in my neck of the woods. California may be different (I would think higher, given the cost of living). Wait for some more responses on this board, or do some research online, before you go and ask for $120k.

[Isaac]

I suspect that 70k is a little low particularly for the area
that you live in.  If you can find out what rate you are being
billed at, maybe 1/3 of that times 1900 hours would be an
estimate of what to expect.

Also, if you are being given an offer, don't worry about your
lack of experience.  Apparently the firm is just fine with your
credentials.

Hopefully you can get some hint of what they feel is a fair
offer before you have to name a figure.  It would be pretty
funky to say 70k when the firm is thinking that 100k is the
bottom they would offer anyone.

[melwrc]

120k is on the high side for a small firm to offer for a 1st yr associate.  www.nalpdirectory.com provides starting salary info for many law firms.  A search of SF for IP firms provided 125k as the highest.  It would be surprising for you to get very close to that from a tier III school.  90-100k seems reasonable to me.

An important thing for you to ask is whether they would be willing to do salary reviews every 6 months.  This gives you the opportunity to earn the higher salary.  Small firms are hesitant to offer big money up front, but are willing to shell out the money if you show that you're worth it.

[patento]

Thanks guys.

One more question. My GPA (JD) is 3. It is approx. 3.4 if I remove first 2 semesters (they were pretty bad). Is it reasonably ok?

[melwrc]

You don't get to parse the bad semesters.  Employers will look at your class rank.  You will have to work pretty hard to get a job with the 3.0 (~50% rank) from a tier III school.  A good undergrad gpa from a respected school would be very helpful.

[IPLVR]

At a big law firm you would get paid about 125K.  There are plenty of entry opportunities in the SF area.  I know several firms are looking.  Just go on Martindale....

[patento]

At a big law firm you would get paid about 125K.  There are plenty of entry opportunities in the SF area.  I know several firms are looking.  Just go on Martindale....

I checked Martindale. It came up with lots of listing but they all are posted by a search firm named BCG Attorney Search. Law firms don't pay search firms for associates without less than one year of experience, therefore, they will not be interested (I talked to one of them and this is what he told me).

[Isaac]

That's what BCG told me when I looked into one of their job postings.
It seemed like a pretty funky thing to say when the job posting
indicated 0-3 years of experience was required.

There is one head hunter that mails out letters to people right
after they pass the patent bar, and then tells people who reply
that he only works with laterals.  How many of them would
be on a list of people who just passed the patent bar?

[patento]

I checked with 5-6 tech companies in SF bay area. They don't hire agents/attorneys with no experience.

[PiP]

Do summer associateships count much for experience if you end up not working at the same company?

[patento]

a small firm has offered me 40% of billing rate (they claim to have enough work as far as billing is concerned). I am JD from tier 3 (finishing in a month) - also BSEE with over decade of experience in technology-  also recently passed patent bar. Have no prior experience in any legal field.

Is it reasonable salary to start with. What is typical billing rate in patent prosecution (charged to clients)? I am in SF bar area.

[melwrc]

40% of bill rate is a very good number...but the big question is how they calculate your hours billed, and how much they will bill for your work.  You can really be hurting for hrs while you learn if they charge clients low prices for your work by writing off a bunch of your hrs w/o crediting you for the hrs.  

Another thing to ask about is whether 40% is inclusive of all your benefits.  If you are basically contract, then a lot of the 40% will get eaten up in taxes and health insurance.