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[mighty]

hello.
I have an idea I would like to  patent, but I know pretty much nothing about the process.
I have a few questions I could use some help with:
I don't really have to means to test or engineer the product. I am wondering if it is possible to hire someone who can just help me articulate the idea and register it as a patent.
How much might this cost (getting a patent attorney or such)?
Is it safe to just give an idea to a patent attorney and let them research it and put in a patent application?
Can someone give the names of a few trusted agencies I could go to?
Even if the agency is trusted, should I still have them sign some kind of confidentiality agreement before presenting the idea to them?
The price of the patent process is what I most would like to know, so that I can know how much I need to be prepared to spend.
Do I need to make a working model?
Anyway, I think you see my direction
Any advice would be much appreciated
Thank you so much!
Mighty

[rts]

The price of the patent process is what I most would like to know, so that I can know how much I need to be prepared to spend.

Do you have $10,000 at hand?

It will very likely cost more over the next 3-4 years, but to get started with a professional you'd better have about $10,000 ready. If you're lucky, you won't need all of it right away.

[mighty]

I could probably come up with more than that if needed, but what would it be for, exactly? Just for the attorney, or for research, or what?

[bleedingpen]

If the invention is simple, you can probably find an attorney that will work to draft a patent application for roughly 5k. 

If you need design work, you will need to contact an industrial designer or other appropriate person. 

[mighty]

I think the concept is quite simple, but getting it to work right might be a different story. I'm sure some other patents could be had for a way to get it to work properly... still, the idea itself is very simple.

EDIT: In fact, it's more of a new way to use something that exists, but the use and the impact it would have on the function of another device would be very new and profound. Does that still count as a patentable idea?

EDIT: another question: if it turns out the idea is not patentable, would the attorney still charge me the full amount, or would they let me know before we got too far into the process that it is not patentable? If they knew right away, would they tell me, or would they just go through with the process so they could get paid? I guess this is a question of ethics, but...

[JimIvey]

I don't really have to means to test or engineer the product. I am wondering if it is possible to hire someone who can just help me articulate the idea and register it as a patent.

Yes, it's possible.  All that is needed is that the application describe your invention in enough detail that it would enable someone of ordinary skill in the relevant technology/ies to make and use your invention.

How much might this cost (getting a patent attorney or such)?

There are primarily two phases.  

The first is preparing and filing the application.  That cost depends entirely on the complexity of the invention and starts at around $3k for very simple inventions and up to $20k or more for particularly complex inventions.  I think it's useful to consider complexity in terms of the number of parts that require description and a multiplier for degree of difficulty for technologies that require careful navigation of the law.  For example, I recently had to deal with the definition of "the application layer" in the OSI model for computer communications.  It was very tricky to work that definition given that many will try to read "application layer" as any layer at which applications are present.

The second is prosecution of the application -- arguing with the Patent Office over whether your application should be granted and a patent issued.  That depends entirely on actions by the Patent Office and can cost anywhere from a few hundred to several thousand depending on the nature of the action.  Those actions typically won't start happening for 2-3 years after filing, but they do happen and the Office will really put your through your paces in showing that your application should be granted.  The good news is that the costs are deferred for a few years and those years should tell you something about the value of your innovation.

Is it safe to just give an idea to a patent attorney and let them research it and put in a patent application?

Yes and no.  You'll have to read the application and sign some papers about it.  And, the attorney won't be as familiar with the relevant technology as you are, so you'll have to make sure they get the description of your technology right.  The attorney should give you some guidance through the process.

Can someone give the names of a few trusted agencies I could go to?

Many of the posters here provide precisely the service you're looking for, so I wouldn't expect them to recommend others nor to recommend themselves (to avoid appearing too self-serving).

Even if the agency is trusted, should I still have them sign some kind of confidentiality agreement before presenting the idea to them?

For an attorney, the obligation to keep your invention secret is more binding and persuasive than any NDA you would have them sign.  So, such an agreement would be superfluous, but wouldn't hurt.

The price of the patent process is what I most would like to know, so that I can know how much I need to be prepared to spend.

See above.

--cont.--

[JimIvey]

--cont.--

Do I need to make a working model?

No.  See above regarding someone of ordinary skill in the relevant technology/ies.

EDIT: In fact, it's more of a new way to use something that exists, but the use and the impact it would have on the function of another device would be very new and profound. Does that still count as a patentable idea?

New and non-obvious uses for known things are patentable.

EDIT: another question: if it turns out the idea is not patentable, would the attorney still charge me the full amount, or would they let me know before we got too far into the process that it is not patentable? If they knew right away, would they tell me, or would they just go through with the process so they could get paid? I guess this is a question of ethics, but...

The attorney is paid to prepare and file the application, not to guarantee its success.  If the complete the preparation and filing, they have earned their money. 

The body of applicable prior art that must be avoided is just too vast to be fully considered by anyone person regardless of how much time and money they devote to searching.  In addition, the examiner might read a prior art reference differently that a fallible human attorney might read it.  No one can guarantee success of a patent application.

Certainty of allowability of a patent application relative to pre-filing searching effort follows a curve of diminishing returns.  A little bit of effort can significantly reduce uncertainty.  Further increments of searching effort reduce uncertainty by smaller and smaller amounts.  At what point the uncertainty is sufficiently low that further searching does not justify its cost is purely a business decision, not a legal one.  When you reach that point, whether the level of uncertainty is sufficient low to risk the cost of filing a patent application that might not be allowed is also a business decision, not a legal one.

Remember.  The only patents without any risk are expired patents.

Regards.

[mighty]

thanks jim!