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[JFar17]

I know there have been several similar topics regarding this subject matter but I have significantly less experience in my field compared to most of the previous questions...

I currently have a BS in Civil Engineering and have been working in NYC for a construction company for 3 years.  I don't loath my job but I am aspiring for something more intellectually challenging.  A few friends have mentioned patent law as a possible career alternative since I have always been one to enjoy debates and writing (rare for most engineer types).  Additionally, I have even managed to be involved with most legal matters for my current company including writing several legal documents and letters.  I cannot help but entertain the idea that perhaps patent law would be a perfect combination of the two areas that I enjoy while also offering a more consistent (geographically) and lucrative life style (my current employer, like most large construction companies, tends to move their employees to wherever the work is - Canada being a possible next destination for me). 

Through reading several of the topics and comments on this forum I have concluded that the most likely course of action for my case would be to become a patent agent, get a job as an agent where a portion of my law school tuition will be paid for, obtain a law degree and become a patent attorney.  I also have come to understand that while a civil engineering degree does meet the patent bar exam requirements, it is also on the lower end of desirable majors.

I am currently living in the NYC area and would definitely not be able to afford going back to law school full time.  Is the above scenario a pipe dream or a realistic goal?  Furthermore, has anyone had any experience with someone who has performed such a career change?  It appears a lot of people ask about it but I have yet to find anyone with experience doing it. 

[AnotherCog]

I'd say it's much closer to a pipe dream than a realistic goal, for the reasons you already stated.  Job prospects for people without experience are still pretty limited, firms willing to pay for law school are almost nonexistent in today's economy, and civil engineering is one of the least desirable majors for patent law. That being said, I do know of some people with CivE backgrounds that do other types of law - construction and product liability come to mind. 

[bleedingpen]

Civil Engineering is pretty much the least desirable degree in patent law.  That is going to be your biggest obstacle. 

[zrimkunas]

As someone who was in a similar situation to yours about a year ago, I can tell you that you'll drive yourself crazy reading these forums.  I thought I would never get a position, but I did without too much trouble (note, I am an EE so take this point with a grain of salt). 

I agree that your civil engineering degree will be your biggest obstacle in getting a position.  However, you won't know unless you try.  I would suggest applying for technology specialist positions at a bunch of law firms.  Don't be picky.  Also, look at your alumni network and see if you can get in touch with alums who are currently technology specialists.  They can tell you what their job is like and possibly let you know when positions open up, etc.

FWIW, all of the tech specs that I spoke with last year were attending law school on their firm's dime.

[turbotong]

zrimkunas

share your success story?  school, stats, job offerings?  pretty please?

[bleedingpen]

Not trying to be a jack ass here, but I probably know 200 patent attorneys and only 2 have Civ E degrees (that I know of) and both of those attorneys got in the field before your undergraduate degree specialty meant something.  And frankly, I cannot imagine any scenario in which I would hire a Civ E (unless of course they had a big book of business).  I just don't want to see someone trying to jump into patent law with a Civ E background, only to waste their time looking for an illusory job for several years. 

The best case scenario would be to end up at one of the bottom of the barrel sweat shops like Olliff and then you will probably grow to hate the profession. 

[khazzah]

Not trying to be a jack ass here, but I probably know 200 patent attorneys and only 2 have Civ E degrees (that I know of) and both of those attorneys got in the field before your undergraduate degree specialty meant something.  And frankly, I cannot imagine any scenario in which I would hire a Civ E (unless of course they had a big book of business).

I concur. Most law firms are very picky about the degrees/majors they hire. It's not a matter of who can *do* the job. It's a matter of who they can sell to clients. While I know some patent practitioners with uncommon degrees -- say, Aeronautical Engineering -- I don't know of a single Civ E.

I suggest that OP confirm this for himself.  Look up the top 50 patent firms at
http://www.iptoday.com/issues/2010/03/top-patent-firms.asp

Go to each firm's website, and browse around to find out what technical background each practitioner has. Tell us how many Civ Es you find.

[kent student]

Wow. If the best you can hope for is the viper pit known as O&B - you're in trouble. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villany.

Sidenote: I interviewed with them a few years ago. Before interviewing I checked out their associate turnover rate. At times it was 50% per year and averaged 35% a year.
This was based on looking at changes in their website from the wayback machine, not on ancedotal information.

[bleedingpen]

Civ Es made up 1.777% of the profession as of 2006

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1626348

[khazzah]

Civ Es made up 1.777% of the profession as of 2006

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1626348

Yeah, I thought of the same study, and looked that up too. Decided not to mention it, because I think this info is a bit misleading.

I say "misleading" because the same study shows that Computer Science is 2.9%, or only 50% more than the Civ Es.  Yet I think most folks would agree that a Computer Science degree is in *great demand* by patent firms, relative to Civ E.

Or look at Pharmacology, at 1.19%. I gotta believe that the job prospects for a Pharmacology major is much much better than for a Civ E. I say that because BigPharma is files plenty of patents, leading to some demand for Pharmacology majors at patent firms.  I don't believe the same is true of whoever it is that hires Civ Es.

[bleedingpen]

Civ Es made up 1.777% of the profession as of 2006

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1626348

Yeah, I thought of the same study, and looked that up too. Decided not to mention it, because I think this info is a bit misleading.

I say "misleading" because the same study shows that Computer Science is 2.9%, or only 50% more than the Civ Es.  Yet I think most folks would agree that a Computer Science degree is in *great demand* by patent firms, relative to Civ E.

Or look at Pharmacology, at 1.19%. I gotta believe that the job prospects for a Pharmacology major is much much better than for a Civ E. I say that because BigPharma is files plenty of patents, leading to some demand for Pharmacology majors at patent firms.  I don't believe the same is true of whoever it is that hires Civ Es.

The other thing to consider in that study is the results aren't mapped to actually practicing in patent law.  1.777% may have Civ E degrees, but I bet less than half are actually practicing. 

As to the Comp Es, that is a relatively new engineering discipline and that's the reason for the relatively low numbers.