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[LuckyJuly]

If I apply for the patent bar by category A the first time and denied, will the PTO give me another chance to submit documents for category B without incurring additional fee? 

Here is my situation: I am not 100% sure if I will be eligible for category A.  I know I can apply for category B, but it is hard to gather all the course descriptions at this time and I’d like to avoid it if possible.  Therefore, I want to apply for category A now and hope my application will be approved.  But I worried that if my application is not approved the first time, will I be given a chance to submit course descriptions?  Or is it possible that in such a case, once my first application is denied, I can only file a petition with additional fee? 

In short, I want to figure out if I should send in my application with only transcript now to apply under category A?  or should I wait to gather all the course descriptions and then apply under both category A and category B?

Thank you!

[MLM]

The General Requirements Bulletin says that a disapproved applicant will get the $200.00 or $450.00 registration examination fee refunded, but not the $40 application fee. So if disapproved you would be out $40. You would probably need to pay the fee again to reapply under Category B. You can try calling the Office of Enrollment and Discipline and asking if you qualify for category A before filing the application, but the list of approved subjects seems pretty clear.

[TXPATLAWYER]

Not to be discouraging, but I think category B applicants would have a difficult time finding work as a patent attorney for obvious reasons. For example, an attorney with a bachelor of arts in history with 15 hours (or whatever the requirements are) of chemistry at a community college is not going to be convincing to a client of any industry...

[MYK]

Not to be discouraging, but I think category B applicants would have a difficult time finding work as a patent attorney for obvious reasons. For example, an attorney with a bachelor of arts in history with 15 hours (or whatever the requirements are) of chemistry at a community college is not going to be convincing to a client of any industry...

Some of us have perfectly good degrees in computer science, but our universities decided that they were too special to undergo ABET's accreditation process.

[bleedingpen]

Not to be discouraging, but I think category B applicants would have a difficult time finding work as a patent attorney for obvious reasons. For example, an attorney with a bachelor of arts in history with 15 hours (or whatever the requirements are) of chemistry at a community college is not going to be convincing to a client of any industry...

Some of us have perfectly good degrees in computer science, but our universities decided that they were too special to undergo ABET's accreditation process.

Other than the fact that the client might not be impressed with the actual school that a subject attended, the fact that they still have a BSCS will generally be OK with most clients.  Clients only know if you are a category B applicant if you are missing a BS in some appropriate science completely. 

[SoCalProductDev]

[/quote]
Some of us have perfectly good degrees in computer science, but our universities decided that they were too special to undergo ABET's accreditation process.
[/quote]

That is a horrible shame, isn't it?  Many students, applying to universities while in high school, choosing a school, picking a major, and sometimes later changing a major, don't even have any understanding of accreditation.  I would imagine that in schools that don't have ABET's accreditation, it isn't exactly emphasized as important to fee/tuition paying students.

[MYK]

Not to be discouraging, but I think category B applicants would have a difficult time finding work as a patent attorney for obvious reasons. For example, an attorney with a bachelor of arts in history with 15 hours (or whatever the requirements are) of chemistry at a community college is not going to be convincing to a client of any industry...

Some of us have perfectly good degrees in computer science, but our universities decided that they were too special to undergo ABET's accreditation process.

Other than the fact that the client might not be impressed with the actual school that a subject attended, the fact that they still have a BSCS will generally be OK with most clients.  Clients only know if you are a category B applicant if you are missing a BS in some appropriate science completely. 

Yeah, mine's a BA.

Some of us have perfectly good degrees in computer science, but our universities decided that they were too special to undergo ABET's accreditation process.

That is a horrible shame, isn't it?  Many students, applying to universities while in high school, choosing a school, picking a major, and sometimes later changing a major, don't even have any understanding of accreditation.  I would imagine that in schools that don't have ABET's accreditation, it isn't exactly emphasized as important to fee/tuition paying students.

Yep.  20 years after graduating, I emailed with the department head (whom I'd had as a prof back in the day, nice guy, he even remembered me) and they *still* were too special to bother with accreditation.  The sad part is, they really do have a well-respected CS program.  Their institutional mindset is just that they're special and don't need to bother with such trivialities, because everybody out there *knows* that they're special.

The CS program is in the liberal-arts school (it grew out of their mathematics program).  The engineering college is all fully ABET-accredited, though.

[MarkDighton]

Mostly we have seen that, if you apply under Category A but they determine by looking at your transcript that you're really a Category B applicant, they won't reject your application, but will just send you a postcard requesting the information they'd need to consider you under Category B. This can really delay your application, but may be preferable to sending the Category B information up front. One word of warning, though, if they send you a postcard asking for only one piece of information, send them EVERYTHING they'll need to consider your application under Category B. (We have seen cases where they ask for one document at a time, which can delay your application by months and months.)

And yes, we have seen that the ABET accreditation of computer science degrees can be counter-intuitive. Many of the more established programs think that ABET accreditation is beneath them, while some lesser-known programs have turned to ABET to give them some credibility.
Sincerely,
Mark Dighton, Esq.
Admin. Director, Patent Bar Review
PLI (Practising Law Institute)

[LuckyJuly]

Thanks Mark and everyone!  Very helpful information!