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[BobRoberts]

An article in the New Your Times, about Career Associates- essentially, full-fledged attorneys, not in a partner track, making roughly 50% of the typical associates, but maintaining a family-friendly lifestyle (though that is not really defined).

Article here:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/At-WellPaying-Law-Firms-a-nytimes-1899956294.html?x=0&.v=1

Orrick Law firm, and their Career Associate path discussed at their website here:
http://orrick.com/careers/career_associates/index.asp

Thoughts about this?  I would consider this...  though making less money, you have a life!  On the other hand, I really don't see how this would work-out... In other words, you are a "career associate", and have 3 patent projects on your desk, and certainly enough work to keep you busy this week.  Will partner still approach you to do a rush patent by the end of the week, and if so, will your other work be allowed to lapse into next week (though at times this is not a possibility with prosecution deadlines)...  I wonder what ramifications there are for turning-down work?  I wonder what minimum billiables (and presumable maximum billables?) to maintain a family-friendly lifestyle?  Anyone with any more info?

[plex]

Probably ~25% less work at ~50% less pay.  In most cases the firm would probably try to limit the number of last minute filings, but I am sure they would pop up occasionally.  One big plus would probably be that face time would be less necessary.

[blaze1306]

An article in the New Your Times, about Career Associates- essentially, full-fledged attorneys, not in a partner track, making roughly 50% of the typical associates, but maintaining a family-friendly lifestyle (though that is not really defined).

Article here:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/At-WellPaying-Law-Firms-a-nytimes-1899956294.html?x=0&.v=1

Orrick Law firm, and their Career Associate path discussed at their website here:
http://orrick.com/careers/career_associates/index.asp

Thoughts about this?  I would consider this...  though making less money, you have a life!  On the other hand, I really don't see how this would work-out... In other words, you are a "career associate", and have 3 patent projects on your desk, and certainly enough work to keep you busy this week.  Will partner still approach you to do a rush patent by the end of the week, and if so, will your other work be allowed to lapse into next week (though at times this is not a possibility with prosecution deadlines)...  I wonder what ramifications there are for turning-down work?  I wonder what minimum billiables (and presumable maximum billables?) to maintain a family-friendly lifestyle?  Anyone with any more info?

I hate to say it but here goes for me a 3L. I'm not suffering through the rule against perpetuities and equities and remedies class to make 60k and not be able to pay off the student loans I have accumulated. That being said... with the job market the way it is now, I would take a job like this if I absolutly had to, but as soon as greener pastures arrived I'd be gone. I'd rather work for the USPTO to get some good experience big law firms really want so I'd be much more marketable when firms begin hiring again.

This type of "watering down" of our profession is disheartening.

[plex]

And yes, at a 50% paycut and no partnership, you are better of in engineering (where there actually is some demand), or the USPTO, at least if you were seriously considering sticking with such a job.  But it would open up more opportunities later.

[LivingItUp]

This type of "watering down" of our profession is disheartening.

It will be funny when they refer to the "career associates" as "the help".

So says a non-attorney.

[bleedingpen]

Many associates on the partnership path at big firms are actually lifetime associates------ they just don't know it yet.

[blakesq]

Many?  I think "Most" is more accurate.  Thats why this saying is so true:  "It is not a question of if you go solo, but when". 

Many associates on the partnership path at big firms are actually lifetime associates------ they just don't know it yet.

[OMG IP]

This type of "watering down" of our profession is disheartening.

Frankly, I call it doing business.  And more particular, doing business in a recessive economy.

And the legal world, let alone IP world, is hardly the only profession experiencing these effects.

[bleedingpen]

The problem is that we have too many law schools and therefore too many lawyers. 

[AnotherCog]

The problem is that we have too many law schools and therefore too many lawyers. 

The real problem is that we have too many colleges that churn out worthless college degrees.  Most people attend law school as a do-over after playing Frisbee golf for four years while majoring in communications. 

[blaze1306]

This type of "watering down" of our profession is disheartening.

Frankly, I call it doing business.  And more particular, doing business in a recessive economy.

And the legal world, let alone IP world, is hardly the only profession experiencing these effects.

I dont disagree with your assertion, however creating two classes of attorney's, splitting the profession between the haves and the have nots? Smacks of inequity. If we attorney's want to hold ourselves to the same high standards as Doctors, to be considered true professionals, shouldn't our position be just as respected? Would you go to a Doctor that was a "Career Physician"( PA's dont go to medical school)? I see it more as large firms taking advantage of the recession to get cheep work for next to nothing.

On a seperate note does anyone believe the "career associates" are not going to have the same last minute POT filings and late nights as regular associates after a while?

[UVAgal4]

Interesting. While I find 60k too low for such work, I think it would definitely be worth considering.

Here in Europe, people don't start with such big debts after school, so it isn't so essential to be making 100K+ euros right out of law school. In fact, I highly doubt that any newly-minted attorney makes that much.

[bleedingpen]

I dont disagree with your assertion, however creating two classes of attorney's, splitting the profession between the haves and the have nots? Smacks of inequity.

We already have that.  Partners versus associates.  This is just creating a third class.

If we attorney's want to hold ourselves to the same high standards as Doctors, to be considered true professionals, shouldn't our position be just as respected?

We don't hold ourselves to the same high standards as Doctors.  Go back to my comment about too many law schools.  There are plenty of dingbats graduating from law school that are quite frankly undeserving of the high standards given to doctors.  Have you looked at the undergrad GPA and LSAT scores for some of the lower tiered law schools?  Medical schools would never allow in those types of students.

There is the old saying about the MCAT determines whether you go to Medical school, while the LSAT determines which Law school you go to. 

[BobRoberts]

"however creating two classes of attorney's, splitting the profession between the haves and the have nots?"

I didn't get the impression that the Career/associate path would be the only path for associates, (though I'm guessing the law firms wouldn't mind), and that there would still be a true associate to partner path...

 "Smacks of inequity. If we attorney's want to hold ourselves to the same high standards as Doctors, to be considered true professionals, shouldn't our position be just as respected?"

I would only say that there seems to be a (I believe) 'Dr. Nick' (from the Simpson's) class of attorneys.  They seem to draw the entire profession down.  We, the profession as a whole, haven't earned the same respect as (medical) Doctors.  The way we advertise...  An example: There is a commercial that William Shatner does for a midwest attorney.  In the commercial, Shatner says <Attorney x> He'll fight for your rights. Get the opposition running.  Then they break to a law-firm attorney conference about a case.  'It looks like we can get x for this' (says an experienced attorney).  'Who's the attorney on the other side?'  "  "<Attorney x>" says a Jr. PArtner/Associate.  "<Attorney x> says the experienced partner, looking concerned?  "Perhaps we should just settle this one."

I mean come on.  Give me a break.  And we wonder why people don't respect the profession.  And recall some of our law school tort cases.  Though interesting, especially the ones regarding product liability and proper warning to a purchaser...  A couple: The person that jumps off of the garage roof into a 4 Ft. Swimming pool and breaks his neck.  Then sues the pool company for not warning him not to jump from a garage roof into the pool...  And, the one where the person lifts the lawnmower up and mows the hedges, and cuts his hand (arm?) off and sues the lawn mower company for not warning him away from this?  I believe both won their cases and a sizeable award.  Society has become litigious, and takes less responsible for their acts.  (and I'm not counting the slip-on-banana peel cases in supermarkets, which in my opinion have a legitimate basis)   Attorneys could actually help with this, by fending-off 'bogus' cases (and yes, I should be the ultimate arbiter as to what is bogus ;-)  ).   But instead, many take a case tha they think could at least settle, for the money, instead of standing-up for what is right...  And, no I'm not saying all attorneys are like this- perhaps 25%?  But it gives a stigma to the whole profession...  And we've seen these attorneys in law school. 

No, as a profession, in my opinion we will receive more respect as a profession when we earn it. 

[OMG IP]

Bob, I agree basically with where you're going...

My clients do not come to because of who I am (by career path), what school I went to, or what my GPA was.  They come to me because they can afford me and I provide them exceptional service.  Then they come back.

Like an NFL player is an entertainer, a lawyer is a service provider.

Sure, there's a cast/status system associated with our profession, mostly between attorneys.  But can anyone name a profession that doesn't have such a thing?