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Author Topic: Lawyer + Agent + Engineer = Firm?  (Read 2312 times)

Genethicist

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Lawyer + Agent + Engineer = Firm?
« on: 05-17-11 at 10:30 am »

Here is a question for you attorneys. It is my understanding that you cannot have non-lawyers with equity participation in a law firm. So is there a typical model for constructing an entity that includes agents, lawyers and engineers? Do you have to do something subtle to allow the lawyer to practice law at the same time as engaging in business relating to the entity? Do you need two entities? I haven't done any research on this question yet - just hoping to get some direction on the matter first.  -Thanks
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Genethicist

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Re: Lawyer + Agent + Engineer = Firm?
« Reply #1 on: 05-17-11 at 10:36 am »

I should add the following for reference. I am mostly interested in Nevada, and relevant state statute is as follows:

      Rule 5.4.  Professional Independence of a Lawyer.
      (a) A lawyer or law firm shall not share legal fees with a nonlawyer, except that:
            (1) An agreement by a lawyer with the lawyer’s firm, partner, or associate may provide for the payment of money, over a reasonable period of time after the lawyer’s death, to the lawyer’s estate or to one or more specified persons;
            (2) A lawyer who purchases the practice of a deceased, disabled, or disappeared lawyer may, pursuant to the provisions of Rule 1.17, pay to the estate or other representative of that lawyer the agreed-upon purchase price;
            (3) A lawyer or law firm may include nonlawyer employees in a compensation or retirement plan, even though the plan is based in whole or in part on a profit-sharing arrangement;
            (4) A lawyer may share court-awarded legal fees with a nonprofit organization that employed, retained or recommended employment of the lawyer in the matter; and
            (5) A lawyer who undertakes to complete unfinished legal business of a deceased lawyer may pay to the estate of the deceased lawyer that proportion of the total compensation that fairly represents the services rendered by the deceased lawyer.
      (b) A lawyer shall not form a partnership with a nonlawyer if any of the activities of the partnership consist of the practice of law.
      (c) A lawyer shall not permit a person who recommends, employs, or pays the lawyer to render legal services for another to direct or regulate the lawyer’s professional judgment in rendering such legal services.
      (d) A lawyer shall not practice with or in the form of a professional corporation or association authorized to practice law for a profit, if:
            (1) A nonlawyer owns any interest therein, except that a fiduciary representative of the estate of a lawyer may hold the stock or interest of the lawyer for a reasonable time during administration;
            (2) A nonlawyer is a corporate director or officer thereof or occupies the position of similar responsibility in any form of association other than a corporation; or
            (3) A nonlawyer has the right to direct or control the professional judgment of a lawyer.
      [Added; effective May 1, 2006.]
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OMG IP

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Re: Lawyer + Agent + Engineer = Firm?
« Reply #2 on: 05-17-11 at 10:56 am »

There are numerous corporate entities that provide, for example, patent prosecution services (searching, drafting, drawings, filing, etc.).  These entities, when done properly, are not "practicing law".  If you are practicing law, you are a law firm (or whatever pseudo name you wish to use).

In any case, the corporate entity partners can be whoever is designted in the charter/bylaws, as applicable and appropriate.
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DEBOER IP
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John M. DeBoer

Yak

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Re: Lawyer + Agent + Engineer = Firm?
« Reply #3 on: 05-17-11 at 01:11 pm »

How is patent prosecution not considered practicing law?  §10.49 Forming a partnership with a non-practitioner. A practitioner shall not form a partnership with a non­practitioner if any of the activities of the partnership consist of the practice of patent, trademark, or other law before the Office.

If I am not mistaken, the typical model would have the non-licensed employees just be paid employees and not fee sharing partners in the firm, company, entity.
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OMG IP

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Re: Lawyer + Agent + Engineer = Firm?
« Reply #4 on: 05-17-11 at 02:06 pm »

How is patent prosecution not considered practicing law?  §10.49 Forming a partnership with a non-practitioner. A practitioner shall not form a partnership with a non­practitioner if any of the activities of the partnership consist of the practice of patent, trademark, or other law before the Office.

If I am not mistaken, the typical model would have the non-licensed employees just be paid employees and not fee sharing partners in the firm, company, entity.

You think doing a patent search is practicing law?
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DEBOER IP
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John M. DeBoer

Yak

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Re: Lawyer + Agent + Engineer = Firm?
« Reply #5 on: 05-17-11 at 02:09 pm »

There are numerous corporate entities that provide, for example, patent prosecution services (searching, drafting, drawings, filing, etc.).  These entities, when done properly, are not "practicing law". 

Not searching. Not drawing.  But drafting and filing a patent application... yes.  Unless I am completely off base.
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Genethicist

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Re: Lawyer + Agent + Engineer = Firm?
« Reply #6 on: 05-17-11 at 02:23 pm »

"If I am not mistaken, the typical model would have the non-licensed employees just be paid employees and not fee sharing partners in the firm, company, entity."

And that is the next question. If this model was adopted, can the non-lawyers participate in a profit-sharing model? I know they can't share in the fees, but can they share in the firms profits? I assume the answer is yes. In the alternative, do you think there is a problem with having two entities where one is a consultancy with all members and one is a law firm with only licensed members, and where going into engagements, it is explained to prospective clients that all legal work will be done by the law firm entity?
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Kaitlin

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Re: Lawyer + Agent + Engineer = Firm?
« Reply #7 on: 05-17-11 at 03:25 pm »

"If I am not mistaken, the typical model would have the non-licensed employees just be paid employees and not fee sharing partners in the firm, company, entity."
And that is the next question. If this model was adopted, can the non-lawyers participate in a profit-sharing model? I know they can't share in the fees, but can they share in the firms profits?
Do not assume the answer is "Yes".  Even if the state bar is liberal, as Nevada appears to be, it will likely still depend on the form the profit-sharing takes.

Re the prohibition generally: my personal take is that the driving force behind it is the desire to ensure the profit motive won't override legal ethics (and/or other professional judgment) in firm decision making.  By ensuring all decision-making stakeholders in law firms are attorneys, you ensure that those directing the firm are 1) trained in the law of and governed by their state's legal code of ethics, and 2) subject to suspension or disbarment for straying from that ethical code.  Other concerns are that clients might mistake non-attorney members of a firm for attorneys, or the activities of non-attorneys could cause client confidences to lose attorney-client privilege. 


Here's an excerpt from a DC Bar Ethics Opinion which provides a bit of background re the traditional concerns behind the prohibition and the modern trend with regards to fee-sharing.  (The full opinion can be found at http://www.dcbar.org/for_lawyers/ethics/legal_ethics/opinions/opinion233.cfm.)  It discusses the issue in the context of deciding whether or not a "success" fee could be shared with non-lawyers.

Opinion 233  [DC BAR]
Payment of “Success Fees” to Nonlawyer Consultants
---------------
[....]     "The bans on fee-sharing and partnerships with nonlawyers have long been a feature of codes of legal ethics. They were motivated by a number of concerns, chiefly that nonlawyers might through such arrangements engage in the unauthorized practice of law, that client confidences might be compromised, and that nonlawyers might control the activities of lawyers and interfere with the lawyers’ independent professional judgment. Opinion No. 146.
     "The Kutak Commission of the American Bar Association, which drafted the ABA Model Rules of Professional Conduct, proposed a dramatically different approach that would have allowed a wide range of business associations between lawyers and nonlawyers. The Kutak Commission thus recognized the important and integral role that a variety of types of nonlawyers—from paralegals to economists, social workers and accountants—have come to play in modern law practice. Compare Opinion No. 93, in which this Committee in 1980 similarly recognized the increasing role of nonlawyers in law practice. The ABA’s House of Delegates, however, rejected the Kutak Commission proposal and adopted, in Rule 5.4 of the Model Rules, general bans on sharing of legal fees with nonlawyers and on partnerships with nonlawyers paralleling those contained in Disciplinary Rules 3-102 and 3-103 of the old ABA Model Code of Professional Responsibility.
     "The Rules of Professional Conduct adopted in the District of Columbia, effective January 1, 1991, contain a version of Rule 5.4 that, like the Kutak Commission proposal, reflects a more liberal approach to the subject of fee-sharing and association of nonlawyers in the legal practice. Rule 5.4(a), the general ban on fee-sharing, contains not only the traditional exceptions for payments to a deceased lawyer’s estate and inclusion of nonlawyer employees in a retirement plan based on profit-sharing, but also, in Rule 5.4(a)(4) and 5.4(b), an exception permitting the sharing of fees in partnerships or other organizations in which nonlawyers have an interest, provided that certain safeguards are observed.[footnote omitted]
     "We believe that the more liberal approach embodied in the D.C. Rules, together with a recognition of the vital role that nonlawyer experts from many disciplines play today in assisting lawyers in providing legal services to their clients, counsels against a broad reading of the Rule 5.4 proscription of fee-sharing with nonlawyers in this context. We also think that the present inquiry must be viewed in the light of several propositions that, it seems to us, are incontestable. First, nothing in the Rules of Professional Conduct would prohibit a direct arrangement between the law firm’s client and the consulting firm for the payment of a “success fee” to the consulting firm. Second, it is commonplace for lawyers to retain and pay outside consultants directly and to pass on their charges as an expense in billing their clients; no-one suggests that this constitutes the “sharing” by the lawyer of a fee with the nonlawyer consultant. Third, Comment 8 to Rule 3.4, reflecting another liberalization of the traditional approach in the District of Columbia, permits payments of contingent fees to expert witnesses so long as they are not based on a percentage of the recovery." [....]
« Last Edit: 05-17-11 at 08:52 pm by Kaitlin »
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This post is an off-the-cuff musing and should not be misconstrued as legal advice. THERE IS NO ATTORNEY-CLIENT RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN US. Proper legal advice requires full disclosure of facts-not appropriate to a public forum-and attorney research time and effort which has not been expended here.

Genethicist

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Re: Lawyer + Agent + Engineer = Firm?
« Reply #8 on: 05-17-11 at 09:41 pm »

Interesting you mention DC. I had read this earlier in the day...

http://www.dcbar.org/for_lawyers/ethics/legal_ethics/opinions/opinion244.cfm
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Kaitlin

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Re: Lawyer + Agent + Engineer = Firm?
« Reply #9 on: 05-18-11 at 07:06 am »

http://www.dcbar.org/for_lawyers/ethics/legal_ethics/opinions/opinion244.cfm
Thanks for the link.  That's a real departure from the standard approach of the past (although I see the opinion was dated 1993!).
« Last Edit: 05-18-11 at 07:08 am by Kaitlin »
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Genethicist

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Re: Lawyer + Agent + Engineer = Firm?
« Reply #10 on: 05-18-11 at 09:19 am »

While the link is interesting, I think you are right. I surely don't want to be the test case in Nevada. I think the only safe answer is to have two entities and put some processes in place to keep the activities/personnel cleanly segregated.
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Kaitlin

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Re: Lawyer + Agent + Engineer = Firm?
« Reply #11 on: 05-18-11 at 01:16 pm »

That would probably be the safest in any event.  But if you have a business structure in mind that isn't outright forbidden and could handle the primary concerns behind the prohibition, you might see if Nevada Bar Counsel -- or whoever handles their ethics matters (i.e. disciplinary proceedings) -- could give you an advisory opinion on the viability of your proposal, perhaps with you offering more than one business model for their consideration. 
« Last Edit: 05-18-11 at 01:24 pm by Kaitlin »
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Yak

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Re: Lawyer + Agent + Engineer = Firm?
« Reply #12 on: 05-18-11 at 01:17 pm »

If you have a business structure in mind that isn't outright forbidden, you might see if you can ask Nevada Bar Counsel -- or whoever handles their ethics matters -- if they can give you an advisory opinion on the viability of your proposal, perhaps offering more than one business models for their consideration.

This is an excellent idea.  In PA this is an effective way to get some specific questions answered and most of the people associated with it are very helpful.
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Genethicist

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Re: Lawyer + Agent + Engineer = Firm?
« Reply #13 on: 05-18-11 at 07:17 pm »

Thanks for all the advice. I may very well pursue getting an opinion.
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asdfasdf

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Re: Lawyer + Agent + Engineer = Firm?
« Reply #14 on: 06-03-11 at 10:54 pm »

I am not sure if this helps answer your question, but I think I read an ethics opinion that said patent agents can form partnerships with patent lawyers as long as the practice is restricted to patent prosecution.  I think it relied on 10.48 that refers to 'practitioners' and the federal preemption doctrine.  I don't have a cite for the opinion.  I think the state may have been Virginia or Maryland but it may have been DC.
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