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[bbalcrzy23]

Hi all,

I have a BS in mechanical engineering. I have been working for a large international energy corporation for the past 3 years. I have decided to leave my current position and attend law school, with the intent to enter into the IP field, specifically patent law. I know ME is not grossly in demand in patent law, therefore I have started taking undergrad classes in EE.  I plan to take as many as possible before attending law school in Fall 2012.  Unfortunately, due to time constraints and certain pre-req's, I am going to complete all but 2 courses required for a BSEE.  Although I won't be able to claim an EE degree on my resume when applying for patent jobs, I think I will posses most, if not all of the knowledge gained from the degree.  I also plan on passing the patent bar before law school.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[plex]

If you are only 2 classes away from an EE, you may want to try somehow working them in at some point, having the actual degree on your resume will mean a lot more than just having a lot of EE'ish classes in your transcript.  90% of the decision to interview you (not necessarily to hire you though) will be based on your resume.

Perhaps you could take the last 2 classes during a summer at some point, though you may want to check how long you have to complete a degree with your university before you have to retake some classes.  That might not be possible, since my last EE classes were only offered in either the fall or spring (and usually not both the fall+spring).  You may also be able to finish it during the fall after you finish law school if you do not have a job immediately lined up.

[bbalcrzy23]

Thanks for the info Plex.

I agree, I think having the degree on my resume will definitely help me get interviews. Unfortunately, the two classes I'm referring to are senior design 1 and 2, which obviously have to be taken at different times. With only 3 semesters remaining before I plan to attend law school, it's impossible to complete the pre-req's required for those classes.  If all goes well, I plan on interning during my summers and lining up a job post graduation.  That really doesn't leave anytime to complete these two courses. Also, I plan to attend law school and apply for jobs in the DC/Boston/Chicago areas, therefore I won't really have the opportunity to finish these courses at my current university in Florida.

Although not completing the degree at this time is not ideal, what really intrigues my interest in the IP field is being exposed to new technology, and to constantly have the opportunity to learn new things. At my current job my learning curve has flattened out significantly after the 2.5 year mark, and now I'm just going through the motions.  I started taking part-time EE classes last semester while continuing to work and I have really enjoyed being back in a learning atmosphere. Also, being a mechanical engineer, it's nice to understand the electrical components of our machines. I think having a BSME, plus 95% BSEE, should prepare me pretty well for patent prosecution work.

I also hope to get in some part-time lab work or join an EE club to get more practical experience.

Do you recommend taking the patent bar before law school? I think it would be nice to get it out of the way. Plus it shows potential employers that you are serious and determined about entering patent law.

Thanks

[khazzah]

Do you recommend taking the patent bar before law school? I think it would be nice to get it out of the way. Plus it shows potential employers that you are serious and determined about entering patent law.

I definitely recommend taking the patent bar before you interview. Whether that's before law school, during school, during the summer, or whatever. I took the patent bar as a 2L.

[blakesq]

I would try talking to your academic advisor in the school of EE, and see if you can take some other course or independent study instead senior design.  They will often work with students.  Good luck!

Thanks for the info Plex.

I agree, I think having the degree on my resume will definitely help me get interviews. Unfortunately, the two classes I'm referring to are senior design 1 and 2, which obviously have to be taken at different times. With only 3 semesters remaining before I plan to attend law school, it's impossible to complete the pre-req's required for those classes.  If all goes well, I plan on interning during my summers and lining up a job post graduation.  That really doesn't leave anytime to complete these two courses. Also, I plan to attend law school and apply for jobs in the DC/Boston/Chicago areas, therefore I won't really have the opportunity to finish these courses at my current university in Florida.

Although not completing the degree at this time is not ideal, what really intrigues my interest in the IP field is being exposed to new technology, and to constantly have the opportunity to learn new things. At my current job my learning curve has flattened out significantly after the 2.5 year mark, and now I'm just going through the motions.  I started taking part-time EE classes last semester while continuing to work and I have really enjoyed being back in a learning atmosphere. Also, being a mechanical engineer, it's nice to understand the electrical components of our machines. I think having a BSME, plus 95% BSEE, should prepare me pretty well for patent prosecution work.

I also hope to get in some part-time lab work or join an EE club to get more practical experience.

Do you recommend taking the patent bar before law school? I think it would be nice to get it out of the way. Plus it shows potential employers that you are serious and determined about entering patent law.

Thanks

[bbalcrzy23]

Thanks for the comments everyone. Good idea Blakesq, it's worth a shot.

[bleedingpen]

I will about guarantee you that you can get some type of masters in EE in a shorter amount of time than you can finish the BSEE.  Just a thought. 

[bleedingpen]

Oh and my 2 cents is that having 95% of a BSEE is almost the same as having 0% of a BSEE.  Employers aren't going to spend the time to flesh out how far through a BSEE program you got.  They either see BSEE or they don't.

[bbalcrzy23]

Hey bleedingpen,

I've looked into the MSEE.  Since my background is in ME, I would have to take about 6 classes before even starting the graduate classes, which constitute an additional 30 credits. So in my case it's faster to get the BSEE. This is the case at UCF, maybe it's different elsewhere.

I'm going to speak with an advisor to determine if some type of independent study can substitute the senior design course.

I don't think it's worth postponing law school just to finish a second bachelor's degree. Even though I am currently very interested in IP, there is no guarantee that my interests won't change.  I'll finish as much as I possibly can, and go from there.

Thanks for your advice.

[blakesq]

Wow, I forgot you already had an undergrad in engineering.   so an argument you could make to take a substitute for the senior design courses, is that you already took design courses in your undergrad ME!  Good luck!

Hey bleedingpen,

I've looked into the MSEE.  Since my background is in ME, I would have to take about 6 classes before even starting the graduate classes, which constitute an additional 30 credits. So in my case it's faster to get the BSEE. This is the case at UCF, maybe it's different elsewhere.

I'm going to speak with an advisor to determine if some type of independent study can substitute the senior design course.

I don't think it's worth postponing law school just to finish a second bachelor's degree. Even though I am currently very interested in IP, there is no guarantee that my interests won't change.  I'll finish as much as I possibly can, and go from there.

Thanks for your advice.

[patentatt]

Thanks for the info Plex.

I agree, I think having the degree on my resume will definitely help me get interviews. Unfortunately, the two classes I'm referring to are senior design 1 and 2, which obviously have to be taken at different times. With only 3 semesters remaining before I plan to attend law school, it's impossible to complete the pre-req's required for those classes.  If all goes well, I plan on interning during my summers and lining up a job post graduation.  That really doesn't leave anytime to complete these two courses. Also, I plan to attend law school and apply for jobs in the DC/Boston/Chicago areas, therefore I won't really have the opportunity to finish these courses at my current university in Florida.

Ignore the prereqs.  Just go to the professor, explain that you can handle the situation, and ask to take the class.  Professors always let me ignore prereqs.  When I went to the dean to work on my class schedule for upcoming semesters, the secretaries would say "how did you take class X, before Y" - and I would always tell them "I just asked."

I know a tenured philosophy professor who is intimately familiar with the workings of academia.  I asked him how he got two Ph.ds simultaneously, which sounded unusual to me.  He once told me: "there is only one rule in academia - the one rule is that there are no rules."

Although not completing the degree at this time is not ideal, what really intrigues my interest in the IP field is being exposed to new technology, and to constantly have the opportunity to learn new things. At my current job my learning curve has flattened out significantly after the 2.5 year mark, and now I'm just going through the motions.  I started taking part-time EE classes last semester while continuing to work and I have really enjoyed being back in a learning atmosphere. Also, being a mechanical engineer, it's nice to understand the electrical components of our machines. I think having a BSME, plus 95% BSEE, should prepare me pretty well for patent prosecution work.

I would do whatever it took to get the EE degree.  I can't imagine being two classes away from an EE degree and not getting it.  I can't overstate how much it has helped me over the years.

Do you recommend taking the patent bar before law school? I think it would be nice to get it out of the way. Plus it shows potential employers that you are serious and determined about entering patent law.

The patent bar is a good feather in your cap.  But it is not the panacea that many law students think it is (as I once thought it was).  Most employers, if they impressed with your other qualifications, will just expect you to take and pass the patent bar soon as your employment begins.

[bbalcrzy23]

Wow, that is great advice Patentatt. I totally agree with you and the tenured professor.

My ME credits are still in the process of being migrated to my new EE undergraduate transcript so I have not been able to sit down with an adviser or professor to determine which classes I already have credit for. I think that the EE senior design classes are EE specific, but who knows, it's definitely worth asking. Even if they only give me credit for Senior design 1, that may be enough for me to finish the degree. Maybe they will even let me take them at the same time.

I will also ask to skip a few pre-reqs; and instead take them as co-reqs.

Thanks for your advice!

[plex]

You can probably find someone high enough at the school to let you ignore the pre-reqs, I definitely did that one or two times myself.  First you can ask the head of the department, then ask the assistant dean, then the dean.  Do not ask the secretaries, they will just stare at you and tell you you must take the pre-reqs, regardless of your situation.

[bbalcrzy23]

I spoke with the head of the EE department and we went through my degree audit and proposed course of action. It turns out that it's impossible to complete the degree in time. There are a few classes which cannot migrate from my BSME due to differences in curriculum between universities.

So I have developed a few options:

Pass patent bar before law school plus...
1. Take as many EE classes as possible -- no additional degree.
2. Computer science minor
3. Take a plethora of random classes that I'm interested in and/or acquire a non-patent related minor (legal writing and rhetoric minor, economical policy minor, business minor). This may not help with finding a job post-law school in patents, but I will greatly enjoy it and some of the writing courses will probably help with law school.  Also, being an engineer, I feel pretty deprived of economics/banking/finance....basically how the world works. It would be refreshing to broaden my general knowledge of these fields.
4. Work my butt off to find a part-time or temporary patent agent / tech specialist position and do some of option 3.

A "year off" before law school seems like a great opportunity and I just want to make sure I take advantage of it.

Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks for all of the help thus far.

[AnotherCog]

I spoke with the head of the EE department and we went through my degree audit and proposed course of action. It turns out that it's impossible to complete the degree in time. There are a few classes which cannot migrate from my BSME due to differences in curriculum between universities.

So I have developed a few options:

Pass patent bar before law school plus...
1. Take as many EE classes as possible -- no additional degree.
2. Computer science minor
3. Take a plethora of random classes that I'm interested in and/or acquire a non-patent related minor (legal writing and rhetoric minor, economical policy minor, business minor). This may not help with finding a job post-law school in patents, but I will greatly enjoy it and some of the writing courses will probably help with law school.  Also, being an engineer, I feel pretty deprived of economics/banking/finance....basically how the world works. It would be refreshing to broaden my general knowledge of these fields.
4. Work my butt off to find a part-time or temporary patent agent / tech specialist position and do some of option 3.

A "year off" before law school seems like a great opportunity and I just want to make sure I take advantage of it.

Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks for all of the help thus far.

Passing the patent bar is a nice gold star, but doesn't usually sway hiring decisions.

1. Might be helpful if you manage to land a patent job, but won't help you to get your foot in the door.
2. See above.
3. Waste of money and time.
4. Probably your best bet of the four if you forget about taking classes.

If you're not going to a top 10 law school and you're serious about doing patent law, doing an EE degree will pay dividends for your career in the long term.