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[AverageJoe]

I operate a reasonably sized online forum that has been in use for just over 3.5 years.  Shortly after the creation of this site a member was asked to develop a logo for this site.  No monies or payment of any kind were ever requested by the designer.  Since this time, the logo has been used as the official logo for the online portion of this organization.  This logo has become the identifying logo of this organization, both in printed and electronic format.  Since this time, the designer has made no indication of ownership of this logo.  Statements were only ever made that he was the designer.

In September of 2003, the ownership of this organization was transferred to another member for an undisclosed fee.  At this time, the designer of the logo made no contact with the new owner to indicate any ownership of logo.

In March of 2004, this same individual was asked to design an additional logo for an annual event.  Again, no monies or payment were requested by the designer at the time of request.  After the design of the logo was completed, the designer asked for payment for his services in the form of a shirt with the logo on it that was sold and distributed at the event.  At this time, a shirt was provided to the designer as compensation.

The designer has now asked that "his intellectual property" be removed from the online portions of both the organization and the annual event.  However, it is my understanding that both logos belong to the owner(s) of the organization and those who operate the annual event.  Both logos are recognized to be the property of the organizations by the general populace.

My questions are this:
Does anyone have experience with logos on the Internet and ownership of these logos when designed by a second party?

Where can I find definitive legal resources that will state who is the true owner of the logos?

[Isaac]

The issue can be that separate from whatever trademark rights
the forum owner has developed in the name, the designer
might well hold the copyright in the design.  I don't see
any facts that suggest the artist was an employee, and a
copyright transfer requires a writting signed by the transferee.

The circumstances surrounding the design and use of the logo
might imply a license from the artist to use the logo.  Maybe.
Maybe some kind of laches applies that would limit the designer's
ability to enforce the copyright.

[JSonnabend]

I agree with Isaac's general analysis.  If the continuing use of the logo is important to the new owners, it makes sense to contact a lawyer to put this issue to rest.  Not taking the proper steps now may lead to a loss of rights that the site owner might otherwise have in the mark.

- Jeff

[Cherry Duke]

I have kind of an opposite questions here...

I'm a newbie graphic designer who designed a logo. Now my client (who continues to use the logo on the website which I also designed and on printed materials) wants to use a new designer...

A few years ago, I began a barter arrangement with this client. I thought the work I would do for the client would be little and occasional technical support, but I soon discovered the client (a restaurant) wanted a new logo, a web site, ads for newspapers, etc. I had little experience with this type of client, so the opportunity to do this work and learn-by-doing seemed a great way to branch out, even though the barter (meals in exchange for my work) was hardly "equitable."

I still have hundreds of dollars of credit to use at the restaurant, as the work the client needed turned out to be so much and so frequent. The restaurant location is not very convenient for me, and since the menu is very expensive, tips (out of my pocket) are expensive too.

At any rate, recently I told the owner I simply couldn't afford to do the barter any more, and he said he couldn't afford to pay me cash. So we agreed to do a half-barter/half-cash thing. Recently, he casually mentioned that his new catering manager will be doing the design work from now on.  Yesterday the new designer asked me to send a high-res file of the logo which I designed.

I have mixed feelings about this. The letter of agreement I composed and we signed way-back-when mentions nothing about ownership of designs , but it feels like I'm "giving away" my work.

Should I just hand over the file, no questions, or is there something else I can say/do? I don't want to get into an uncomfortable relationship with the restaurant owner, but I feel a little strange about just handing over my work, knowing there will be no further compensation.

I've been advised that the logo is "my property," but I don't know how to proceed. I have been trying to write the client  back expressing some of my concern, but I get stuck in the fact that I designed this logo for them way back in the beginning, and certainly the invoices for that work were "paid" via barter a long time ago. How do I express my concern? What would I put in writing? Am I saying they can't alter the design?  I can't afford a lawyer. In the client's eyes, they paid me for my work.

Thanks for any advice you can offer.

[Isaac]

"In the client's eyes, they paid me for my work."

The question is, what exactly did the client pay for.   The facts posted suggest that you own the copyright to the logo and that the client probably owns a license to use the logo.  But whether the license allows the client to modify the logo (create derivative works) just is not clear;  none of the posted facts suggest an answer to me.  

None of the facts suggest that the client can force you to turn over any digital files associated with the work.

Nothing wrong with the client asking for the file.  Maybe the solution is to negotiate terms for releasing the file and allowing the owner to create some derivative works.  If you come to an agreement, I'd suggest committing the agreement to writing.

[JSonnabend]

Nothing wrong with the client asking for the file.  Maybe the solution is to negotiate terms for releasing the file and allowing the owner to create some derivative works.  If you come to an agreement, I'd suggest committing the agreement to writing.

That's very sound advice, and I second it.  Isaac's legal analysis is sound, although I might go a bit farther out on a limb and say that, based on the facts you've provided, the owner does not have the right to create derivative works.  If he did, you wouldn't have much anything to negotiate.

Speaking directly to an attorney wouldn't be a bad idea, either.

- Jeff