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Author Topic: Material from Textbooks  (Read 1758 times)

Jeffrey Dobias

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Material from Textbooks
« on: 04-05-05 at 09:26 pm »

Does a copyright extend to concepts?  For example, I have to give a presentation on a Statistical topic as part of a teacher certification class and would like to use ideas (not verbatim) from a certain textbook.  Of course this is what teachers always do, but typically the textbook is officially used for the course and purchased by the students.  In my case, though, may I introduce concepts in the same way as this outside textbook?
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JSonnabend

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Re: Material from Textbooks
« Reply #1 on: 04-06-05 at 07:51 am »

Quote
Does a copyright extend to concepts?  

As a basic tenet of copyright law, the answer is no.  Only particular expressions of ideas are protectable, not the ideas themselves.

- Jeff
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mojobadshah

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Re: Material from Textbooks
« Reply #2 on: 06-30-11 at 08:46 am »

Quote
Does a copyright extend to concepts?  
As a basic tenet of copyright law, the answer is no.  Only particular expressions of ideas are protectable, not the ideas themselves.

- Jeff


When you say expressions of ideas do you mean medium of expression?  If not could you provide some examples of these particular expressions of ideas. 
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Yak

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Re: Material from Textbooks
« Reply #3 on: 06-30-11 at 09:28 am »

He means you can not protect the idea of a good guy and a bad guy and a grand battle between the good guy and the bad guy for the fate of the world.

However you can protect the particular expression of those ideas when put in a tangible medium; such as Harry Potter, Superman, etc., etc...

Taking ideas, concepts, and information from others tossing them around in your head and then producing your own original take on those concepts is generally ok.  Do not copy materials from textbooks. 
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mojobadshah

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Re: Material from Textbooks
« Reply #4 on: 06-30-11 at 11:55 am »

Tell me if I got this right: Superman expresses a distinct concept.  If anyone used the same concept using differnt language it would be infringmt.  So if the concept of "a single omnipotent and omnicient creator of the universe" was expressed through Ahura Mazda and this expression was copyrighted anyone who used th word god to express the same concept would be held accountable for infringment, right?
« Last Edit: 07-11-11 at 11:02 pm by mojobadshah »
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mojobadshah

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Re: Material from Textbooks
« Reply #5 on: 07-11-11 at 04:58 pm »

Can anyone answer the above question?
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Zonath

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Re: Material from Textbooks
« Reply #6 on: 07-12-11 at 01:28 am »

Tell me if I got this right: Superman expresses a distinct concept.  If anyone used the same concept using differnt language it would be infringmt.  So if the concept of "a single omnipotent and omnicient creator of the universe" was expressed through Ahura Mazda and this expression was copyrighted anyone who used th word god to express the same concept would be held accountable for infringment, right?

No.  Not at all.  Partly because basically every religious scripture (except for very new religions) is in the public domain, so 'Ahura Mazda' would never be subject to copyright, and thus would never be subject to copyright infringement.

Additionally, while the distinctive features of a character, when taken as a whole, can be subject to some level of copyright protection, it really does take a fairly identical character for there to be much chance of infringement.  Anyone can write a book about a boy wizard without needing to worry to greatly about infringing the copyrights for the Harry Potter books, but at the same time, the more that boy wizard exhibits traits and gets into situations that resemble Harry Potter, the greater the likelihood that someone could find infringement.

So even assuming Ahura Mazda could possibly be copyrighted, the protection in that copyright would not necessarily extend to all similarly-powerful beings, but would probably only extend to beings with very similar traits, legends, and so on. 

And finally, although the owners of the Superman copyright were famously able to sue the publishers of Captain Marvel in National Comics Publications v. Fawcett Publications, 191 F.2d 594 (2d Cir. 1951), that case was settled in an era where caped, super-powered superheroes were a fairly new concept, and where it could fairly be said that Captain Marvel would be a non-fair use derivative work based on Superman.  Nowadays, it seems like the situation would be different, since caped, superpowered superheroes have proliferated into the thousands, and so it's much more difficult to say that the concept of any one superhero is especially derivative of Superman (or of any other particular superhero), or that the caped, superpowered superhero is an especially-unique concept anymore.  The 'idea' of a caped superhero has effectively been divorced from its expression in Superman, since it's fairly impossible (without some very specific similarity) to prove that any one caped superhero was actually copied from Superman.  We also live in a world where the ancient Persian gods are just some of millions of other gods, so again, it would be difficult to show that the creator of a new god would have copied Ahura Mazda (he could just as easily be entirely unaware of Ahura Mazda) -- he may simply be appropriating the entirely public domain concept of a 'god' for his own use without actually copying any one god.
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mojobadshah

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Re: Material from Textbooks
« Reply #7 on: 07-13-11 at 11:33 pm »

No.  Not at all.  Partly because basically every religious scripture (except for very new religions) is in the public domain, so 'Ahura Mazda' would never be subject to copyright, and thus would never be subject to copyright infringement.

Apparently the King James Bible is out of copyright ONLY outside of the British Commonwealth where it has a permanent Crown copyright.  So the idea of copyrighting an old or ancient work and giving it a permanent copyright is not unheard of.  And copyrighting an expression is not unheard of either.  Put two and two together you got a permanent copyright that extends to ancient expressions.  Not unbelievable, huh?    

Additionally, while the distinctive features of a character, when taken as a whole, can be subject to some level of copyright protection, it really does take a fairly identical character for there to be much chance of infringement.  Anyone can write a book about a boy wizard without needing to worry to greatly about infringing the copyrights for the Harry Potter books, but at the same time, the more that boy wizard exhibits traits and gets into situations that resemble Harry Potter, the greater the likelihood that someone could find infringement.

So even assuming Ahura Mazda could possibly be copyrighted, the protection in that copyright would not necessarily extend to all similarly-powerful beings, but would probably only extend to beings with very similar traits, legends, and so on.
 

Well I would have to say that Ahura Mazda "an all good God [single omnipotent, omniscient creator of the universe]" resembles the Lord expressed in Christianity.  The traits are identical.  I'm not sure exactly what you mean by legends and so on.  Give me some examples. 

And finally, although the owners of the Superman copyright were famously able to sue the publishers of Captain Marvel in National Comics Publications v. Fawcett Publications, 191 F.2d 594 (2d Cir. 1951), that case was settled in an era where caped, super-powered superheroes were a fairly new concept, and where it could fairly be said that Captain Marvel would be a non-fair use derivative work based on Superman.  Nowadays, it seems like the situation would be different, since caped, superpowered superheroes have proliferated into the thousands, and so it's much more difficult to say that the concept of any one superhero is especially derivative of Superman (or of any other particular superhero), or that the caped, superpowered superhero is an especially-unique concept anymore.  The 'idea' of a caped superhero has effectively been divorced from its expression in Superman, since it's fairly impossible (without some very specific similarity) to prove that any one caped superhero was actually copied from Superman.  We also live in a world where the ancient Persian gods are just some of millions of other gods, so again, it would be difficult to show that the creator of a new god would have copied Ahura Mazda (he could just as easily be entirely unaware of Ahura Mazda) -- he may simply be appropriating the entirely public domain concept of a 'god' for his own use without actually copying any one god.

There are no ancient Aryan (Afghan, Iranian, Tajik, Kurd, etc...) "gods."  Since the beginning of the attested Aryan mythology the Aryans only worshipped one God, Ahura Mazda.  No other Indo-European or world mythology describes the same "[one] God" other than the Jewish God after the Jews had come into contact with the Aryans or Persians (while they were living in Persia....), and the Christian God, an idea which was ultimately derived from the Aryan God via the Jews.  It was one of the concepts that made the Aryan mythology so revolutionary.   
« Last Edit: 07-13-11 at 11:54 pm by mojobadshah »
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