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[tarikur]

So I have an idea for a product that will radically change the market, forever (ie revolutionary concept). My idea is related to computer programing/software/websites. I know the design, what will it do and how it will work but since I did not take any courses in computering, I do not know codes to make it. I thinking of filing a provisional patent and then once it gets approved, I will send my idea to competing companies for the market. First question is can I patent an idea even if I do not know how to make it?

I believe my idea so big, that if I send my idea to different companies, my idea be copied by almost all companies (ie even those that I did not approve, thus they will infringe on my patent) since they need my patent to stay in the market. My question is should I only send to one company since if I tell other companies, they will know it and copy it? I want to send to different companies, so I can pick the company that will give me the best offer.

I know patent last for 20 years but what confuses me is that I see different competitors for items less than 20 years old. For example,  did not someone file a patent for internet search engine, then why are there so many different internet search engine? Or did not someone file patent for "social networking", if so why there are so many different social network sites out there? Or did not someone file patent for web browser or media player (like microsoft windows media player), then why do so many web browser/media player exist?
Same idea, my product is pretty much like a new thing and I believe competitors will copy my product in order to survive.

Last question is I have two different revolutionary ideas for the same product. Do I one provisional patent or two different provisional patent?

I promise you my product will effect you if you have a computer.
 

[MYK]

This is one of those questions that can take days to talk someone through.  Here's a broad overview.  You should talk to a patent agent or attorney about the details.

I know the design, what will it do and how it will work but since I did not take any courses in computering, I do not know codes to make it. I thinking of filing a provisional patent and then once it gets approved, I will send my idea to competing companies for the market.

Well, even before your first question, a bit of a correction:  there is no such thing as a "provisional patent".  There is a "provisional application for a patent".  But this is just a filing;  by itself, it won't get examined, and it will evaporate after one year.  You would have to file a nonprovisional patent application before anything more happens.

Also, do be warned that companies tend not to take provisionals very seriously.  Often, they know that if they just wait it out, the inventor will lose all rights anyway when the provisional expires in one year (unless you file a nonprovisional and then proceed with the prosecution stage).  Many inventors give up when they can't get a company to license their "idea", so the provisional dies, and then the company only has to worry about a breach-of-contract suit (and probably not even that, since the $600 to file a nonprovisional is cheap compared to paying an attorney to sue for a violation of a nondisclosure agreement (NDA) -- if you can even get the company to sign an NDA to begin with).

First question is can I patent an idea even if I do not know how to make it?

The basic concept is that you must have "reduced to practice" the idea -- turned it from a broad conceptualization to something that can be specified in detail.

You don't have to have a functioning prototype.  You just need to be able to describe your invention in enough detail that any "person of ordinary skill in the art" can understand and use it -- after your patent expires, of course (assuming that you do get a patent out of it).

If you can't describe it that well, then you haven't reduced your invention to practice yet, and your application will be considered non-enabling.  This is what most people don't understand about provisionals.  Filing a one-page memo on the broad outlines is a total waste of money.  A provisional needs to be written to the same level of detail as a nonprovisional.  The only area that can be skimped on (and it's NOT a good idea to do so) is the claims section;  there, in a provisional you can file a single pro forma claim like "1. The invention as shown and described."

Lastly, if you are this unfamiliar with the process and the requirements, especially in a software application, you need to realize that there are many, MANY pitfalls that can ruin the enforceability of your application, and you aren't going to be able to learn them overnight, or even over several months.  You're going to need the help of someone who knows how to write a software patent application.  BE SURE that whomever you speak to, and eventually hire, to help you out is someone who is a REGISTERED PRACTITIONER (agent or attorney) with the patent office of whatever country you are in.

There are many unlicensed/unregulated "invention promotion companies" that prey on small inventors.  You have very few protections against their bad behavior.  Someone who is a registered practitioner, at least in the U.S., is subject to professional discipline by the patent office -- i.e., they can lose their license if they do something like trying to steal your invention.

Disclaimer: I am not an attorney or patent agent, so this does not and cannot constitute legal advice, and no attorney-client or agent-client relationship has been or can be formed between us.  I recommend that you discuss your invention with a registered patent practitioner (agent or attorney).

[MYK]

(continued)

I know patent last for 20 years but what confuses me is that I see different competitors for items less than 20 years old. For example,  did not someone file a patent for internet search engine, then why are there so many different internet search engine? Or did not someone file patent for "social networking", if so why there are so many different social network sites out there? Or did not someone file patent for web browser or media player (like microsoft windows media player), then why do so many web browser/media player exist?

Because they couldn't patent something that broad.  There was too much prior art already.  People have been using computer bulletin boards since at least the 1970s;  those were "social networks" of a sort.  Video encoding and videodecoders?  At the very least, the GIF89a standard might qualify as one.  There were probably others earlier, and they built on robotic vision systems, which have been worked on for decades.

You only get to patent whatever cannot be shown to be prior art or "obvious" extensions/combinations of prior art.

The one that IMHO got screwed up was Hotmail;  nobody had done "email on the web" before, and there are so many advantages over what existed before that it's absolutely mindboggling.  Unfortunately for the inventor, the U.S. didn't allow software patents to be as broad then as they are today;  I think the Hotmail guy hit on the idea just before the courts and Congress threw the gates wide open, so I don't think he even tried.  Maybe I'm mistaken, though.  I know UIUC is still kicking itself over failing to sufficiently patent-protect NCSA Mosaic, the web browser that matured into Netscape, which of course was several years before Hotmail came into existence -- but a standalone application, and the various processes within it, are very different from how I think Hotmail could/should/would have been claimed today.

Last question is I have two different revolutionary ideas for the same product. Do I one provisional patent or two different provisional patent?

You can file one or two provisional applications -- or none, for that matter, and just go straight to a nonprovisional application.  If you have two distinct inventions, then when you file a nonprovisional, you might have to do a "divisional application" to get the patent office to look at both inventions (one in each resulting nonprovisional application).

For the sake of simplicity, you may want to file two provisional applications, keeping everything nice and separate.  To save maximally on fees, file only a nonprovisional.  If you really can't afford to file a nonprovisional, you probably can't afford to go through the patent process anyway.

All of this will depend heavily on what your "two" inventions are, whether they are related, how they are related, how closely they are related, whether they can or should or won't work together. . . .

Disclaimer: I am not an attorney or patent agent, so this does not and cannot constitute legal advice, and no attorney-client or agent-client relationship has been or can be formed between us.  I recommend that you discuss your invention with a registered patent practitioner (agent or attorney).

[tarikur]

Thanks a Lot MYK. I really appreciate your help. You made a lot good points.

I know for sure that my product can be made and I also believe that companies will love my idea since it will change a lot of what we do on the computer. One of the problem may be the "prior art or "obvious" extensions/combinations of prior art" problem just like social network and media player like you said. I do believe at least one one my idea is kind of unique.

This is my plan. I have scheduled an appointment with an attorney next Thursday, and once I file provisional application, then I am going to make a video describing what is my product and how my product works. My original plan was to mail the video to all the companies and wait for offers (like I said before, I honestly think they will like my product but my concern is delivering to the owner/ceo/president of the companies and see it). Now, I am thinking that I am only going to one company and letting the company sign the NDA and show them the video (the problem is I might get better offer if I show the video to multiple companies and traveling and actually setting a meeting). What do you suggest, I should do.

I have two separate idea on the same product (like I have two different idea improving/changing how we watch video online) but idea can be linked somewhat. I want to file one single provisional patent. The reason I am going for provisional patent than non-provisional patent because some of the things may change after we make the product and also that I can get a funding and lawyer support from a big company. One of my idea has a lot of depth to it like creating a program and then creating multiple websites integrating with the program. I do not how to put this depth of an invention on a patent (like should I detail the websites too?)

I never saw a technological product with no competition due to patenting. Only products I see patent actually working are drugs. Is a concern for me because I feel like companies that I did not give permission to will use my idea and also will steal my product.