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[Andrews]

Hi everyone,

If I am creating a transcription of a video on internet(i.e. a youtube video), is it considered fraud to offer it for free on my website?
What about selling it?

For example, there is a service called Overstream(http://www.overstream.net) which allows people to create subtitles for videos hosted on Youtube, and then the created subtitles are overlay-ed on the youtube video.
The website doesn't host the actual video but instead it embeds the web player from Youtube and puts the subtitles over it.

I saw some people saying that it shouldn't be legal, that you are not allowed to transcribe a video, both embed it and show it with the subtitles.
However, this service is running for years now....

Can you please share your opinion on this?

Thank you!

Andrew

[Andrews]

  Anyone please? Any opinion would be helpful.

  Thanks!
 

[Isaac]

The transcription and distributing of sub titles is almost certainly infringement.  Lot's of illegal stuff happens on the internet. 

[Andrews]

"almost certainly" !?
Sorry but your comment is not helpfful

[Isaac]

"almost certainly" !?
Sorry but your comment is not helpfful

Sorry, but that's as good as it gets.  I do not believe that there is any substantial argument, including fair use, that would excuse the activity you describe, but I don't know all of the facts, and I'm not going to be the decider in whatever jurisdiction you manage to get yourself sued in.

[Andrews]

LOL, its not about me, it's not my service
geez, I was just trying to understand how some things work

[khazzah]

If I am creating a transcription of a video on internet(i.e. a youtube video), is it considered fraud to offer it for free on my website?
What about selling it?

I saw some people saying that it shouldn't be legal, that you are not allowed to transcribe a video, both embed it and show it with the subtitles. However, this service is running for years now....

geez, I was just trying to understand how some things work

I suppose the question you're really asking is "why does this service violate/not violate copyright law". Isaac gave you a pretty solid answer: almost certainly.

If you're bothered by the qualifier "almost", well ... that's just the way it is. Law is complicated. Some of us are lawyers. But you're not our client. We don't have all the facts. You're asking for free advice about a hypothetical situation. "Almost certainly" is as good as you're going to get.

Isaac pointed out that just because someone is offering a product or service really doesn't tell you whether or not the service is liable for copyright infringement, patent infringement, or violation of any number of laws. People break laws all the time. Sometimes they get away with it.

[Kaitlin]

Well put, Karen.

For the OP:

The basic principles at play are these:
Creator of a work has a copyright in it once it's made ("fixed in a tangible medium of expression").
It's illegal to copy that work or turn it into a "derivative" work unless you have permission from the copyright holder or you fall under a "fair use" exception -- a fact intensive analysis and you still may not be sure a court will agree with your conclusion.
Copying the words of a video from audio to writing would either constitute copying, or if not copying per se, then I would think it would at least count as making a "derivative" copy.
Therefore unless you have permission from the copyright holder or fall under a "fair use" exception, making subtitles would be illegal infringement.

Isaac went out of his way to try to help.  Don't shoot the messenger.

[Andrews]

Thank you all for your comments Isaac, khazzah and Karen
I wasn't bothered at all.
I guess I was looking for a more conclusive answer. I am a software developer, my area of expertise have nothing to do with the IP so that's why I asked it here.
It's hard for me to believe that for example, if a service like youtube which is run by Google, would want to do something about it, they won't be able to do so.
It's Goliath vs a flea. It's enough they send a warning letter. They don't even have to put their army of lawyers at work.

Here's another thing. Youtube made some modifications last year which made Overstream to malfunction. Not sure if it was intentionally or a side effect. But Overstream overcame the issue.

You mentioned about now knowing all the facts. Not sure exactly what you might need.
If you are interested further on this, please ask what you need to know.

I guess the question I should have asked from the start is this "Is it considered fraud if I am creating a web page where I embed a youtube video (embedding is a function offered by youtube, I am sure you have seen pages containing videos from youtube embedded) and I also display a transcription(captions) of the video somewhere in the vicinity of the youtube video embed?"

THanks!

[artchain]

Andrew, "fraud" has nothing to do with this.

Adding subtitles to a video is probably copyright infringement.

However, I looked briefly at the overstream.net site, and it appears that the subtitles are posted by users.

In that case, it is technically the users who are violating copyright laws.

Under the Digital Millenium Copyright Act (DMCA), a site operator is not liable for copyright violations by third party content providers, as long as the site operator has an agent for DMCA takedown requests, and removes copyright violations upon notification.  So that may be how overstream.net gets away with this.

Actually, YouTube itself operates under the same legal protections.  Much of the material posted on YouTube violates copyrights, but as long as YouTube follows the DMCA rules, they are not liable.

[Andrews]

Thank you artchain, you really nailed it.
Yes, that's the key I think.
I didn't think about youtube, which ironically it's really the best example, but I did think about many other websites, especially file-hosting websites like Rapidshare who cannot take responsibility of what users are uploading but instead just answer the demand of the authors and take down the fraudulent files.

Thank you all for your good answers.

[Isaac]

It's Goliath vs a flea. It's enough they send a warning letter. They don't even have to put their army of lawyers at work.

Youtube does not own the copyright to videos uploaded to their site.  How can they complain about infringement.

"Is it considered fraud if I am creating a web page where I embed a youtube video (embedding is a function offered by youtube, I am sure you have seen pages containing videos from youtube embedded) and I also display a transcription(captions) of the video somewhere in the vicinity of the youtube video embed?"

Youtube does not mind that you embed.