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Author Topic: Is patent agent job always stressful?  (Read 2932 times)

khazzah

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Re: Is patent agent job always stressful?
« Reply #15 on: 02-04-11 at 09:37 am »

Even in house, there are multiple "clients".  (Different inventors, departments, subsidiaries, spin-offs, etc., who may--nay, invariably will--have competing interests.)  A client is anyone to whom a duty of diligence is owed.
The inventors are generally not your clients.   

I was surprised when I first heard of inhouse attorneys referring to their "clients". I can see that the various business units you advise as inhouse counsel are your "customers", in the sense that your job is to keep them happy. And I can see they have competing interests sometimes, which you must balance. But "client" has a very specific meaning in the legal context, and I don't see "customer" as being quite the same as "client".

Isn't it generally true than an inhouse attorney has but one client: the company *as a whole* ?
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klaviernista

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Re: Is patent agent job always stressful?
« Reply #16 on: 02-04-11 at 09:43 am »

Isn't it generally true than an inhouse attorney has but one client: the company *as a whole* ?

Yes.  An in-house attorney owes fiduciary duties to the corporation as a whole, and not to any specific entity/employee within the corporation.  In fact, there are circumstances where an attorney can create a conflict of interest by performing work for an employee, outside of his work for a common employer.

But to be fair, I think that Robert is referring to "clients" in a broader sense, namely as the people that he has to cooperate with in the performance of his primary function as his company's legal counsel.  In that sense, different business units, inventors, etc., share almost all of the same attributes as a "client" in the legal sense of the word.  And I do not think Robert is wrong to think of his inventors, business units, etc. as "clients."  Why?  Because if a corporate attorney doesn't exercise the same level of care, etc. with individual inventors, business units, etc., he/she could easily breach his/her fiduciary duties to the corporation as a whole.
« Last Edit: 02-04-11 at 09:45 am by klaviernista »
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Robert K S

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Re: Is patent agent job always stressful?
« Reply #17 on: 02-04-11 at 06:37 pm »

If you don't delegate, then you cannot handle thousands of cases and you should not try.  I'm not sure that criticizing those who do delegate is meaningful.

I don't recall making such criticisms, beyond making the commonsense observation that overloading one's docket risks diluting one's energies to the point of dereliction of duty.  I don't believe this idea of "spreading oneself to thin" is unique to patent work, but is universal to any kind of work.  If one is delegating, one isn't handling thousands of cases, but instead, performing an administrative/logistical function, and placing one's trust in one's colleagues or lieutenants.

Handling 100 active dockets means a response will come due on average once every few days.  Handling 1,000 dockets means a response will come due perhaps on average once a day, and there will be many days with more than one response due.  If even a third of those are non-final or final rejections that have to be substantively responded to and thus require reference review, critical contemplation, discussion or (worse) evidence gathering, no single person could reasonably handle such a workload with the diligence and professional care that a client deserves.  ("Delegating" isn't using diligence and professional care if one is signing off on others' work without putting in needed critical review beforehand, which can often take just as much time as what has already been put into the work.)

As for the inherent superiority of in-house counsel over outside counsel, outside counsel can't afford to spend decades understanding the client's technology and the market, and therefore can neither write specifications of surpassing quality technically nor prosecute claims that provide maximal commercial value for the client.  Pointing this out is not puffery but purely an issue of cost-benefit: outside counsel isn't interested in, and can't afford to be interested in, the company's business, they're interested in lawyering and charging billable hours.  In-house counsel can afford to be much more intimately involved in engineering, product development, marketing, sales, regulatory aspects, etc., etc.  Asking for such broad and deep expertise within one company's area is too much to ask of someone who works in a firm--they've got other things they need to be doing, since a firm attorney's overriding duty is to his firm.  This oughtn't be a controversial opinion: firm lawyers, first and foremost, want to keep their jobs.

As for us, when we need outside counsel, we use it--but generally only for things we can't do ourselves, for lack of license, credential, or experience, such as foreign prosecution.

Klav's understanding of my broader meaning of "client" as I've used it here is correct, as, I think, is his deeper analysis with respect to how serving a "corporation as a whole" involves mindfulness and gentle attention to interacting and often competing internal interests.

I'm a bit surprised this philosophy appears to be meeting resistance here.  It seems self-evident to me, but perhaps not everyone has been treated to the in-house experience.  (Isaac?)
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khazzah

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Re: Is patent agent job always stressful?
« Reply #18 on: 02-04-11 at 09:34 pm »

Klav's understanding of my broader meaning of "client" as I've used it here is correct, I think

I think Klav's description of how you used the word "client" pretty much matches the way I used it. I just hadn't yet considered how the duty you owe to the units you interact with (inventors, managers, corporate officers) relates to the fiduciary duty to the entity as a whole.

as is his deeper analysis with respect to how serving a "corporation as a whole" involves mindfulness and gentle attention to interacting and often competing internal interests.

Sure, I get the mindfulness and attention. Again, I just hadn't yet considered how that might rise to the level of fiduciary duty.

It seems self-evident to me, but perhaps not everyone has been treated to the in-house experience. 

My experience is extremely limited : a single law firm.

I do really enjoy hearing the in-house perspective. Partly because as outside counsel, I need to understand your perspective. But also because, well, I'm just interested in other viewpoints.
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Karen Hazzah
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Isaac

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Re: Is patent agent job always stressful?
« Reply #19 on: 02-07-11 at 01:05 pm »

I think Klav's description of how you used the word "client" pretty much matches the way I used it. I just hadn't yet considered how the duty you owe to the units you interact with (inventors, managers, corporate officers) relates to the fiduciary duty to the entity as a whole.

FWIW, firm lawyers wrestle with the same things when they are doing lots of prep/pros work for a single client.
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Isaac

Wiscagent

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Re: Is patent agent job always stressful?
« Reply #20 on: 02-07-11 at 07:40 pm »

Even in house, there are multiple "clients".  (Different inventors, departments, subsidiaries, spin-offs, etc., who may--nay, invariably will--have competing interests.)  A client is anyone to whom a duty of diligence is owed.
Putting aside the question of who is a “client”, there is nothing unusual about having several persons who demand your services.

A teenager may be trying to juggle sometimes conflicting responsibilities from several teachers, after school activities, parents, grandparents, a job, and so forth.  Do you really think it would be any easier after you graduated school?

The best advice I can give is to figure out who has the most input on your holding onto your job, getting a raise, or getting a promotion.  Then try to keep that person happy with your work.
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Richard Tanzer
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