Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[imbored]

So I'm a 2L trying to decide between offers and I'm realizing it's coming down to figuring out what I want to do for the rest of my life. What exit options exist for IP people? I have a strong engineering background which I want to leverage. Patent work would be fine, but I'm not married to it though I'd like to have some technical element in my work (working with tech companies, etc). The more I think about it the more I realize I'd rather to transactional work than litigation or prosecution.

Anyone have any thoughts? The firms I'm considering are ~V10 and supposedly have great exit options. I can see how they might feed into banks, etc, but what can they offer someone more tech-oriented?

[AnotherCog]

So I'm a 2L trying to decide between offers and I'm realizing it's coming down to figuring out what I want to do for the rest of my life. What exit options exist for IP people? I have a strong engineering background which I want to leverage. Patent work would be fine, but I'm not married to it though I'd like to have some technical element in my work (working with tech companies, etc). The more I think about it the more I realize I'd rather to transactional work than litigation or prosecution.

Anyone have any thoughts? The firms I'm considering are ~V10 and supposedly have great exit options. I can see how they might feed into banks, etc, but what can they offer someone more tech-oriented?

I think that if you're already thinking about exit options after a year of law school, you're going into the wrong profession.

[imbored]

So I'm a 2L trying to decide between offers and I'm realizing it's coming down to figuring out what I want to do for the rest of my life. What exit options exist for IP people? I have a strong engineering background which I want to leverage. Patent work would be fine, but I'm not married to it though I'd like to have some technical element in my work (working with tech companies, etc). The more I think about it the more I realize I'd rather to transactional work than litigation or prosecution.

Anyone have any thoughts? The firms I'm considering are ~V10 and supposedly have great exit options. I can see how they might feed into banks, etc, but what can they offer someone more tech-oriented?

I think that if you're already thinking about exit options after a year of law school, you're going into the wrong profession.

Not looking to leave the law, but at either place there is a 90% chance I'll be leaving after 6 years when I don't make partner. What do IP lawyers do then? What career trajectory exists for IP lawyers?

Eg: IP litigation at big firm -> IP litigation at a smaller firm?

Anything else? What for transactional IP attorneys?

[blakesq]

I am a patent attorney, and I have no idea what a ~v10 MEANS, or what it means when a firm has "great exit options".  If you are asking what job should you take to make you  more adept to handle the situation if you do not make partner, then...take the job where you will get the most experience the fastest.  Do not take a job where you are going to be simply the guy who does document review for 6 years, and then you are kicked out of the firm.  Take the job where you will be handling your own cases, dealing with clients, etc etc.  good luck. 

So I'm a 2L trying to decide between offers and I'm realizing it's coming down to figuring out what I want to do for the rest of my life. What exit options exist for IP people? I have a strong engineering background which I want to leverage. Patent work would be fine, but I'm not married to it though I'd like to have some technical element in my work (working with tech companies, etc). The more I think about it the more I realize I'd rather to transactional work than litigation or prosecution.

Anyone have any thoughts? The firms I'm considering are ~V10 and supposedly have great exit options. I can see how they might feed into banks, etc, but what can they offer someone more tech-oriented?

[Wiscagent]

As a law student, you should be more concerned about getting a job that pays well and helps you learn the business; rather than focusing on how to exit the job.  Consider the working location, job hours, and ability to make contacts.

Since you are concerned about what you want to do for the rest of your life, I suggest that you live very frugally, and save as much of your income as you possibly can.  That way, in a few years you'll have (i) experience in the work force, and (ii) enough money saved up that you can take a sabbatical and explore other options.

Typically exit options include "Leave quietly, or we'll call security and throw you out."

I'm not familiar with ~v10, but V-8 is a healthful (aside from excessive NaCl) drink you might consider.  (But it would not fit in a very frugal budget.  You'll have to get used to eating whatever fresh or frozen vegetables are on sale.)

[scientist30]

Could I take it that the job market in patent law is improving, if people are thinking of exit options (becoming partner, etc) rather than getting a job?

[AnotherCog]

Could I take it that the job market in patent law is improving, if people are thinking of exit options (becoming partner, etc) rather than getting a job?

Since when do law students live in the real world?  I almost feel bad for them.  Just look at some of his statements:

Not looking to leave the law, but at either place there is a 90% chance I'll be leaving after 6 years when I don't make partner.

Correction: you'll be squeezed out after 2-3 years to make room for the next class of unnecessary associates.  It's much easier to do that than forgo a year of OCI and appear like a firm in trouble.

I have a strong engineering background which I want to leverage. Patent work would be fine, but I'm not married to it though I'd like to have some technical element in my work (working with tech companies, etc). The more I think about it the more I realize I'd rather to transactional work than litigation or prosecution.

Law schools will tell students that they can do anything. Want to be an entertainment lawyer? You can be the next Jerry Maguire! Firms will, too. They'll even let you pick your work, as a summer associate. 

Here's how the real world works: firms assign you according to their business needs, not your interests.  If they coincide, great. If not, you're not exactly in a position to complain, are you?  Odds are, that means you'll be doing doc review.  It usually takes new associates about a week or so to find out that they're not the special flowers they thought they were.  Law schools teach almost no practical legal skills and the market's supersaturated with credentials.  If you want to actually learn something useful in law school, learn to use a mouse with the other hand.  That way, you'll be able to switch off after your hand cramps up from clicking away for ten hours straight. 

If you really want to have a long-term career in the law, stop worrying about Vault rankings and exit options.  Your legal career will last a lot longer if you do something you actually enjoy.  Have you even taken a class on patent prosecution? Or litigation? Or anything transactional, for that matter?  If not, how are you leaning towards anything?

[bleedingpen]

Could I take it that the job market in patent law is improving, if people are thinking of exit options (becoming partner, etc) rather than getting a job?

Certainly not indicative of the market as a whole, but I have gotten two calls from recruiters in the past few weeks for in-house positions.  That hadn't happened in about a year.

[Wavelet]

I don't understand the reactions from some in this thread (sour grapes?); OP is clearly deciding among multiple offers from firms and is looking to make an informed choice. It is entirely reasonable to factor exit opportunities into the calculus. And no, not exit opportunities from law; he means opportunities to move in-house, government, etc.

OP, exit opportunities depend on whether you end up doing litigation, prosecution, or licensing/transactions. In general, though, you should look for firms with many tech company clients. Also look for low associate-partner ratios (highly-leveraged shops tend to stick juniors with menial tasks--doc review--rather than train them to become lawyers); be aware too that many firms artificially deflate this number with non-equity partners.

As for Vault, it is largely irrelevant outside NYC, and NYC firms/offices service banks a lot more than tech companies. For example, I'd contend that WSGR in Palo Alto presents more tech-related exit ops than Simpson Thacher in NYC.

Edit: If one of your offers is Kirkland & Ellis in Chicago, strongly consider taking it.

[imbored]

I'm not quite sure what I did to provoke the negative reaction. I'm under no delusions of being a "special flower" and jet-setting around the world advising tech entrepreneur billionaires while sipping champagne. I was thinking something along the lines of IP transactional work -> in house helping manage a patent portfolio. Do people do that? I'm just wondering what sorts of career paths there are for IP lawyers.

As for the V10 thing... I'm just using it as a proxy for the type of firms I'm considering: big GP firms with IP groups. In a stronger economy I might have gone to a boutique where I could've gotten more early experience, but with places like Fish & Finnegan no-offering 50-100% of their summer associates I think that's risky. A lot of boutiques are doing great, but it's very hard to tell as a law student which firms those are. Even some firms that are quite busy are dependent on a small number of huge clients for the bulk of their work, or even a large ongoing litigation...

In any case, to the posters who gave real advice, thanks, I appreciate it.

[blakesq]

again, what is "V10" supposed to mean. 

[imbored]

again, what is "V10" supposed to mean. 

Oops. V10 = the top 10 firms on Vault's law firm ranking (I realize the short-hand isn't ubiquitous - my apologies). Not because Vault's ranking has much to do with the quality of an IP practice, but because it's a decent-enough proxy for the kind of big, diversified firms who are doing well enough in the recession to honor their offers of employment.

[Wiscagent]

Earlier I wrote

Typically exit options include "Leave quietly, or we'll call security and throw you out."

What I was thinking (but did not write) is that there are so many uncertainties when considering a job, and there are so many uncertainties about how that job will work out for you, and there are so many uncertainties about what the job market, and there are so many uncertainties about how "patent reform" will impact the business, that to worry about an exit scenario is absurd.

A few years ago a friend of mine bought an expensive car and proudly told me that would retained a high resale value.  After I stopped laughing, I asked him if he was so disgusted with the car that he wanted to get rid of it already?  Or did he buy the car because he liked the way it worked, its features, its looks, and so forth?  Because if he liked the car, why was he eager to sell it?

With all the factors you need to consider, don't try to look too many steps ahead.  In chess that is difficult.  In life it just doesn't work.

[blakesq]

Wiscagent,

I think you are right up to a point.  But I don't think the original poster is thinking too many steps ahead, because there is a high chance of getting laid off, or his hating the firm that he looks for another job relatively quickly.  He will be in much better position if he has gotten real experience at a firm rather than the dreaded "associate document review".

[bald & chained]

So I'm a 2L trying to decide between offers and I'm realizing it's coming down to figuring out what I want to do for the rest of my life. What exit options exist for IP people? I have a strong engineering background which I want to leverage. Patent work would be fine, but I'm not married to it though I'd like to have some technical element in my work (working with tech companies, etc). The more I think about it the more I realize I'd rather to transactional work than litigation or prosecution.

Anyone have any thoughts? The firms I'm considering are ~V10 and supposedly have great exit options. I can see how they might feed into banks, etc, but what can they offer someone more tech-oriented?

If by "transactional" you mean IP licensing, then most folks tend to get into that kind of work after having some experience either in prosecution or litigation.  I don't think your technical background will help you differentiate yourself from others for more generic transactional work, such as corporate M&A, etc.  Exit options for IP people are: go to another firm, go in-house, go clerk, go to the PTO, become a professor, become a judge, become a patent troll, or start selling burritos on K street.  Having a big name on your resume generally helps for exit options if that name is associated with strong presence in your field of legal concentration.  Thus, in my opinion, you might have better exit options for IP jobs from Kirkland or Finnegan than from some even higher-ranked firms that are not known for their IP departments.