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[inter]

I'm interested in hearing opinions from any of you that might know more than I do or have heard things from others in the industry. I'm just a law student trying to figure out where I want to work, and it is difficult! I really like all 3.

All positions are for patent litigation. All are in California.

Has anyone heard bad things about any of the firms? Good things? I know Fish has had some massive layoffs and no-offered or deferred 2/3 of the 09 summer class. MoFo lowered salaries for a short time. Knobbe claims to require less hours but you get paid less. Any idea on the actual hours worked at each firm? Sweatshop v. substantive work experience and responsibility, etc?

If you had this choice, where would you go, and why?

That's kind of a lot of questions thrown in there. Really, just any info or insight you may have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[Wavelet]

MoFo has a very good patent practice, but all the real patent lit work and power is concentrated in its SF office. The LA office is much smaller and does mostly prosecution. The few litigators in MoFo LA are mostly doing support/auxiliary work for the SF office.

You heard right that Fish no-offered 2/3 of their 2009 summers. I've spoken to a couple Fish principals, and their response was the 2009 summers were hired in Fall 2008 before the recession's severity became apparent. They claim to have substantially cut their summer class sizes, which will enable them to bring up their offer rate. Nevertheless, I'd still be hesitant to jump onboard. While most firms have suffered from this recession, Fish's abysmal offer rate and its decision to lay off hundreds of attorneys and close an office branch underscores serious financial problems.

Knobbe: Their attorneys do work significantly less than their big firm counterparts (think: ~1700 billable hours v. 2000+). They do get paid less; salary starts at $125K and climbs much more slowly than in biglaw. Knobbe also has a much shorter partner-track (5 years), and partnership prospects there are a lot better there than at most biglaw firms. Downside is their comparatively low PPP means a new partner doesn't actually make much more than a 5th-year biglaw associate.

In sum, if you want high-stakes and/or cutting-edge patent lit work go with MoFo SF. They are on par with patent lit powerhouses like Irell and Kirkland. If you want a lifestyle firm, go with Knobbe.

[EastCoastAgent]

I would like to pose the same question, but with regard to patent prosecution.

Does anyone have anything positive to say about Fish?  Did they lay too many people off and are now trying to rebuild (e.g., lay too many pat pros attnys off in an office, but now don't have the numbers to support the work)?

What, ballpark, would you say Knobbe partners make?  Is it really on the $200k-250k range that a 5-6 year associate at Fish would make?  Does that go up as you become a more senior level partner (may be a dumb question)?

[klaviernista]

I would like to pose the same question, but with regard to patent prosecution.

Does anyone have anything positive to say about Fish?  Did they lay too many people off and are now trying to rebuild (e.g., lay too many pat pros attnys off in an office, but now don't have the numbers to support the work)?

Sure, I have at least one positive thing to say about Fish.  Its attorneys do good work.  At least that has been my experience.

The reason a firm lays off attorneys is often far more nuanced than what the press releases might suggest.  Its not a simple matter of saying "we don't have enough work" and axing a bunch of folks.  There are many, many interrealted factors involved.

And FWIW, I never worked at Fish.  I did, however, work for another large IP boutique.  And while my old firm would never admit to "laying off" associates, it did so nonetheless.  Whether you call it a "stealth layoff" or an "encouraged relocation" is like arguing that the sky is two different shades of blue (IMO).

[Pagent04]

How are those firms with agents, with regard to pay, hours, and work environment?

[erico]

I am a somewhat familiar w/Knobbe just because some acquaintances there.  I'm a 1L so this is just an outsider's view of things.  It seems like quality of life there is good.  They seem to be flexible as far as work opportunities - associates can work in areas they have interests.  I also got the impression that they have take an interest in associates' career development.  In addition, they seem to be doing well financially.