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[toast]

was fired from biglaw patent litigation firm earlier this year.  i was a 2nd year associate, almost 3rd year.  started applying for jobs here and there.  had a couple of interviews.  now recruiters no longer email me.  want to do something patent law-related.  but no prosecution experience (only patent litigation).  any advice?

mainly, i'm wondering if things are loosening up somewhere - i can relocate.  if i need to go w/o pay for a while to train in a different area, i'm open to that too.  should i try to wait this out or buy a subway franchise?  if i can't make money in patent law for the next two years, what should i do?

thank you.

[blakesq]

biglaw.  if it was small law, you would have plenty of federal litigation experience, and should be OK.  however, biglaw, if you were stuck doing document review for the last 2.5 years, you may not have much real litigation experience.  How much real litigation do you have?  have you prepared a complaint, served defendants, taking depos, etc? 

was fired from biglaw patent litigation firm earlier this year.  i was a 2nd year associate, almost 3rd year.  started applying for jobs here and there.  had a couple of interviews.  now recruiters no longer email me.  want to do something patent law-related.  but no prosecution experience (only patent litigation).  any advice?

mainly, i'm wondering if things are loosening up somewhere - i can relocate.  if i need to go w/o pay for a while to train in a different area, i'm open to that too.  should i try to wait this out or buy a subway franchise?  if i can't make money in patent law for the next two years, what should i do?

thank you.

[DogDayPM 9er9er9er]

Toast, I'm really sorry to hear of your predicament. 

You say "no pros", but are you registered?  What's your UG degree? 

The thing that comes to mind is I've seen a fair number of in-house companies deciding they need an in-house patent lit manager.  I'm not positive, but I think a number of these may have gone as low as 3 years experience, so "almost 3 years" might get you a phone interview.  Did you get enough experience at biglaw that you could ride herd on patlit OSC (make them keep within budget, help guide strategy, be the inside liaison making sure discovery requirements are met, etc.)?  As I recall, these positions did specify PTO registry but I'd wonder why because they were described entirely in terms of patent (and sometimes TM) litigation management. 

[toast]

thanks all.  i'm registered, but haven't prosecuted.  CS UG.  i have some real federal lit experience (mostly patent related discovery stuff), but nothing significant.  i think the problem is that many employers won't even look at me b/c of my work history (fired in a down economy).  i feel pretty unemployable right now.  am i the only one in this situation?

[BobRoberts]

"(fired in a down economy)"- I would never use this phrasing (and perhaps you don't)- instead, you were laid-off...  Were others laid off with you, or close to the same time frame?  If so, you were an unfortunate part of several lay-offs from Biglaw.  Otherwise, you were laid-off due to firm cut-backs.

Can you focus on how your litigation experience will make you a stronger prosecutor (i.e., from the research that you have done in litigation)?   And, as DDPM mentioned, it could very-well depend on your UG degree. 

Are you a strong/decent interviewer.  If not, brush-up on these skills.  And, there are different threads here talking about how new prosecutors can learn prosecution.  Perhaps get one or more of those books if you are considering prosecution.  I believe "Patent it yourself", Landis, etc...  Or go to a local library/law library and read them there. 

good luck.  The economy has been in a crapper for a while now, and hopefully will recover soon.

[AnotherCog]

"(fired in a down economy)"- I would never use this phrasing (and perhaps you don't)- instead, you were laid-off...  Were others laid off with you, or close to the same time frame?  If so, you were an unfortunate part of several lay-offs from Biglaw.  Otherwise, you were laid-off due to firm cut-backs.

I would be cautious about miscategorizing the circumstances.  A friend of mine did something similar and ran into trouble when it came time for reference checks.  The firm was adamant that the termination was "performance related" and not a layoff.  Perception is paramount in the legal field, after all.  She ended up not getting the job because of the discrepancy. 

[guysmiley]

I feel you. I've been out for more than a year now, from a patent boutique. Still nothing. I haven't even had one interview - the closes I came was getting calls back from partners to cheer me up, but tell me that its unlikely because of my lack of experience.  My solution: get depressed (and try to get my own clients)! On a positive note, i've noticed many new postings for 2-3 year litigation associates in NYC and elsewhere.

[AnotherCog]

was fired from biglaw patent litigation firm earlier this year.  i was a 2nd year associate, almost 3rd year.  started applying for jobs here and there.  had a couple of interviews.  now recruiters no longer email me.  want to do something patent law-related.  but no prosecution experience (only patent litigation).  any advice?

mainly, i'm wondering if things are loosening up somewhere - i can relocate.  if i need to go w/o pay for a while to train in a different area, i'm open to that too.  should i try to wait this out or buy a subway franchise?  if i can't make money in patent law for the next two years, what should i do?

thank you.

I'm not in your situation, but I have multiple friends that have been in the same boat and I feel for you. 

First of all, you need to treat job hunting as a full-time job, no more "applying for jobs here and there."  Don't just blast out resumes, though; research the firm, tailor your cover letter accordingly and then send it directly to an IP partner.  If you're not spending 8-10 hours a day on the job hunt, you aren't taking things seriously.  It'll also give you something to do, rather than allowing depression to set in.

Second, you need to forget about biglaw, if you haven't already.  Your best bet is probably with a midsize firm that's been able to pick up work in the recession by having lower rates than their biglaw counterparts.  Every single one of my laid off biglaw friends ended up at firms like this.  One of them was even asked by their firm if they knew anyone else that had been laid off by the local biglaw firm and still looking for work.  The firm's strategy was to point to their biglaw refugees as an example of the firm having the same "quality" as biglaw, but almost half the pricetag.  I wouldn't shy away from contract positions, either. 

Third, don't lock yourself into one area of the country.  Even if you have a house/family/etc., be willing to move.  There are worse things than being in a commuter relationship and working gives you long-term options.

Fourth, don't underestimate the power of networking.  Several of my friends were hired at firms that didn't even have job postings, thanks to networking.

Fifth, supplement your job search with something meaningful.  Study for a bar exam in another market.  Volunteer at the local pro bono clinic.  Do anything you can to explain away the gap in your employment history.

Sixth, make yourself more valuable.  What about doing a Master's in electrical engineering?  There are plenty of top schools that now offer one online: Stanford, Georgia Tech, etc. 

Anyways, I wish you the very best. 

[tigerswood]

http://www.intelproplaw.com/ip_forum/index.php/topic,14945.0.html

10 Reasons You Should Never Get a Job

Reason number 5

5. Way too risky.

Many employees believe getting a job is the safest and most secure way to support themselves.

Morons.

Social conditioning is amazing.  It’s so good it can even make people believe the exact opposite of the truth.

Does putting yourself in a position where someone else can turn off all your income just by saying two words (“You’re fired”) sound like a safe and secure situation to you?  Does having only one income stream honestly sound more secure than having 10?

The idea that a job is the most secure way to generate income is just silly.  You can’t have security if you don’t have control, and employees have the least control of anyone.  If you’re an employee, then your real job title should be professional gambler.

[toast]

thanks anothercog.  everything you say has at one point or another crossed my mind.  i suppose it's all worth resaying.

at this point, i guess i'm interested in two things.  (1) if i wanted to eventually get into some sort of a PTO practice, what sorts of things (other than working) can i be doing right now volunteering-wise?  (2) if you are in a similar situation, please speak up.  reading about other people's shitty legal careers really cheer me up.

[petethebody]

The best thing you can do right now is re-evaluate your goals.  If you've been out for 6+ months, fill the resume gap.  More useless degrees will not help do anything but keep you busy.  If you want to learn pros, tell a solo you will work for free.  If that doesn't work, give up and try to get some other practical legal experience. 

I know you are almost a third year, but you probably don't have much by the way of practical legal skills.  You need to start volunteering for an organization that will get you in court - like public defender, a municipal government that gets sued a lot, or something else.  Once you actually know how to handle a smaller case from client intake through deposition, and through jury trial, then small firms will consider hiring you.  So keep up the networking. 

Prestige can be a terrible thing.  Don't let it get in the way of finding some fulfilling work in a less prestigious field like DUIs, slip & falls, MVAs and landlord tenant. 

[bald & chained]

toast, so were you simply laid off because of economic reasons or were you actually fired (i.e., for doing something bad)?

[toast]

tech_spec - i was "performanced out."  i.e., got bad reviews.  i didn't do anything *bad* specifically.  i think it has a lot to do with the economy, but the firm won't admit that.  a couple of people disappeared during tht same period, but it's all very secretive and i can't say for sure what their situations were.