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[ldking]

Hello All,

I was hoping some one could give me a bit of advice. I have a bachelor's degree in Computer science, and will soon be attending a state law school, top 50, flagship law school of my state. I plan to practice in this state. I'm interested in specializing in patent law.

My undergraduate GPA is a 3.0, and my actual core GPA for my major I believe dips as low as 2.7something.

Assuming I do well in law school, will this crappy undergraduate GPA significantly affect my outlook for finding work as a patent attorney? What should I do in law school to distance myself from this GPA, or otherwise improve my prospects, besides generally doing well and getting good grades?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[bleedingpen]

Hello All,

I was hoping some one could give me a bit of advice. I have a bachelor's degree in Computer science, and will soon be attending a state law school, top 50, flagship law school of my state. I plan to practice in this state. I'm interested in specializing in patent law.

My undergraduate GPA is a 3.0, and my actual core GPA for my major I believe dips as low as 2.7something.

Assuming I do well in law school, will this crappy undergraduate GPA significantly affect my outlook for finding work as a patent attorney? What should I do in law school to distance myself from this GPA, or otherwise improve my prospects, besides generally doing well and getting good grades?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

You must have destroyed the LSAT.

Don't worry about your undergrad GPA.  Do well in law school and you will be fine.  A few firms might care about your GPA, but most will care more about the major and the school. 

[ldking]

Thanks for your reply--lifts my spirits a bit.

And yes, I'm a classic splitter with the puny GPA and LSAT score on steroids.

[miltonian]

Some will care, some will not.  Be ready to explain your low GPA if an interviewer asks you about it.

[Robert K S]

Speaking as someone who has reviewed a lot of resumes, the grades in the technical subject count for more than the grades in law school when you're talking about hiring a patent pro.  The patent area of law is such a narrow and focused area of the law that it doesn't really matter if you had lousy professors for torts and constitutional law and/or just had a few bad days of writing exams for them.  The pertinent questions are--how articulate are you in the language of the art?--will you be able to quickly pick up new subject matter within your general range of knowledge but not necessarily within your area of expertise, and quickly attain an expert understanding of it by reading disclosures and references?--how rapidly will you be able to ascertain both the limits of the general state of the art and the boundaries of the disclosure of particular art references so as to claim around them or up to and excluding their limits?--do you have a technical background of sufficient breadth and depth to be comfortable discussing the art with the inventors and other engineers?  I don't think any of these things are reflected by law school grades, whereas they are most surely reflected by engineering UGPA.

If you got a low overall undergrad GPA but got a higher GPA in your engineering classes (or the core classes of your major), be sure to point that out by listing a separate GPA computed from those classes.  (Just don't be too selective in picking which classes were "core"--if this number should ever be re-computed from your transcript and a discrepancy should be found, it could be a career-ender.)  Also, never fail to list a GPA on your resume, no matter how bad it is.  It just looks suspect, from the resume reviewer's point of view.  Those resumes generally get quickly put to the bottom of the pile and don't advance to interview phase.

[ldking]

Thanks for the helpful reply--what you've said certainly makes sense.

I'm kicking myself for not being more earnest about my undergraduate performance. It was due to youthful immaturity, and I'm just hoping it won't limit my future prospects too terribly much.

[bleedingpen]

Thanks for the helpful reply--what you've said certainly makes sense.

I'm kicking myself for not being more earnest about my undergraduate performance. It was due to youthful immaturity, and I'm just hoping it won't limit my future prospects too terribly much.

For what it is worth, I had to show my transcripts for my first job and haven't shown them since.  You will be fine.

[guysmiley]

Just to throw in an alternative opinion here, my undergrad GPA was a 3.0 and my law GPA was a bit higher, but I've talked to partners and they say that basically that is on the low-end of the spectrum.  I would say it is a rule that both GPAs are VERY important.  Undergrad GPA is very important, not for your job, but for your marketability as a Patent Attorney.  I know it means nothing overall, but firms are very picky, and right now one of the most distinguishing factors is GPA. I hate to let you down, but that has been my experience so far.  And even after my first job, I had to give my transcripts.

[ldking]

Thanks for throwing in your two cents. Not what I like to hear but it helps put things in perspective!

[Robert K S]

I would say that a low GPA (for any level) could be easily overcome with an impressive writing sample and a dazzling interview.  The trick, of course, is getting to the phase where somebody reads your writing sample and offers you an interview.  You will need to consider other means of seeking employment besides just mailing out resumes.

[gabbo]

Does anyone know if several years of work/industry experience would help to mitigate average grades during undergrad? 

[AnotherCog]

If I had to place hiring factors into a hierarchy, it'd be something along the lines of:

1. Major - Firms base their hiring decisions on their needs.  It doesn't matter if you have a JD from Harvard and a PhD in biotech from MIT: if the firm is looking for someone with a background in electrical engineering, you're not getting the job. 

2. Law school rank - This is a close second.

3. Law school grades - If you're lucky enough to go to a top school that uses pass/fail, ignore this.  Otherwise, shoot for the top 10%, if possible.

4. Undergraduate/Graduate rank - Firms aren't going to list your GPA on your bio, but they'll list where you went to school.

5. Work experience - Similar to undergraduate rank, firms will list relevant work experience and use it to impress clients.

6. Undergraduate GPA - Does it matter? Yes.  Are there other factors that outweigh it? Yes. 

[ldking]

Helpful post, thank you.

[up2late]

If I had to place hiring factors into a hierarchy, it'd be something along the lines of:

1. Major - Firms base their hiring decisions on their needs.  It doesn't matter if you have a JD from Harvard and a PhD in biotech from MIT: if the firm is looking for someone with a background in electrical engineering, you're not getting the job. 

2. Law school rank - This is a close second.

3. Law school grades - If you're lucky enough to go to a top school that uses pass/fail, ignore this.  Otherwise, shoot for the top 10%, if possible.

4. Undergraduate/Graduate rank - Firms aren't going to list your GPA on your bio, but they'll list where you went to school.

5. Work experience - Similar to undergraduate rank, firms will list relevant work experience and use it to impress clients.

6. Undergraduate GPA - Does it matter? Yes.  Are there other factors that outweigh it? Yes. 

Really?  Work experience is number 5?  How can this not be #1?

[khazzah]

If I had to place hiring factors into a hierarchy, it'd be something along the lines of:

I think ranking "Major" as #1 assumes the position is patent pros rather than lit, because I think undergrad major matters a *lot* less for patent lit. In fact, there are firms who hire patent litigators who aren't qualified for the patent bar.

Other than that, I agree that AnotherCog's ranking is the one used by BigLaw GP and TopTier Boutique. I think other Boutiques might care as much about your undergrad and work experience as they do law school.