Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Tarah]

I was writing an article for a legal magazine to update and summarize careers in patent law. I looked into the admission statistics of several law schools, and I conducted interviews with the hiring personnel at several larger firms.  Basically, in at least a couple of schools, 10-15% of the incoming class had a Ph.D., and in some of the law firms receive dozens of applications from candidates having JD/PHD or LLB/Ph.D for a single position. Some IP firms will not accept applicants for biotech positions without the PhD (my own law firm is of that view). I should state that I am in Canada, so it may be different up here. My question is: is there still a demand for the dual degree or are there now an over-abundance of lawyers with that speciality? I guess the only thing worse than not having a job after law school is not having a job after doing both a PhD and law school.

[gabbo]

"10-15% of the incoming class had a Ph.D.," 

What school is this?

[stuffball]

While your numbers do not seem representative of a typical american law school, the trends you're spotting seem to be representative of hiring in biotech.  I don't speak from personal experience (I'm a physical science guy), but people at my firm working in serious biotech pretty much exclusively have PhDs.  The attitude is that a bachelor's just doesn't cut it.

I don't exactly know why things have evolved this way.  My sense is that it's tied to the over-production of PhDs in the biological sciences.  However, it may also be true that much of the work being done by these people necessitates a PhD.

In the physical sciences a PhD is nice, but is far from necessary.  I have one and many of my clients think that's a good thing.  I have a handful of clients who think it's essential.  Most, however, don't really care and do not think it is necessary.  While having a PhD may give me a slight edge over some competitors, I tend to think other factors (level of experience, legal education, etc) win out.

[Frustrated]

At my class at U of Toronto, which is a few years ago, there were about 15 biological sciences PhDs, or at least I knew about that many. That is less than 10% but it still seems like a lot.

[UVAgal4]

For the IP course here in France that I am currently taking, they said that they have seen a large increase in PhD applicants. I guess they are screened more carefully before admittance, as in "Do you really want to do Law or you just can't find a job in research/teaching/etc?"

[MYK]

It's sort of looking like having a Ph.D. is no longer sufficient for biotech patent attorneys.  One of my classmates is having serious trouble finding anything.

[stuffball]

For the IP course here in France that I am currently taking, they said that they have seen a large increase in PhD applicants. I guess they are screened more carefully before admittance, as in "Do you really want to do Law or you just can't find a job in research/teaching/etc?"

I don't know about France, but if people in the US were screened out of law school just b/c they're doing it for some other reason than they have a burning desire to be the next Clarence Darrow... there would be, like, 7-8 patent attorneys in the entire country. 

[Yet another examiner]

I don't exactly know why things have evolved this way.  My sense is that it's tied to the over-production of PhDs in the biological sciences.  However, it may also be true that much of the work being done by these people necessitates a PhD.

Not just bio these days. Pretty much all the physcial sciences are experiencing an oversupply of Ph.D. students and a lack of traditional research jobs.

[stuffball]

I don't exactly know why things have evolved this way.  My sense is that it's tied to the over-production of PhDs in the biological sciences.  However, it may also be true that much of the work being done by these people necessitates a PhD.

Not just bio these days. Pretty much all the physcial sciences are experiencing an oversupply of Ph.D. students and a lack of traditional research jobs.

Very true.   

[horsechute]

I am still very impressed by a PhD in Physics, at the very least from a top university, as I know how utterly difficult it is to get one.

[virus_guy]

Just based on personal observation, it seems there are alot of people coming out of law school with both JDs and PhDs. Recently, in the firm that I work at, we had alot of people interview for summer associateships already having PhDs in various areas, mainly basic sciences. I'm sure the lack of jobs in industry and academia have something to do with that, but I also know that some get tired of research from their grad school experience or research job and want to do something related to research, but not hands-on research. I'm sure there are other alternative avenues, but patent law seems to be the most lucrative and prestigious path, at least before the whole financial breakdown.

I have a PhD and I can't think of many other avenues outside of research and academia to pursue that doesn't make me feel like I wasted 5+ years in grad school. But that's just me. I'm sure others have different motivations.

[1headhunter]

The ranking of the school and grades have become much more important as new biotech attorneys enter the field to be trained in law firms. Regardless of all that education they still must be trained in the field of law. In the mid 80's any Law School plus a PhD in life science worked. PhD's have always been more in demand  in prosecution because most of the clients are PhD's and the learning curve is faster. Litigation is another story. Anything beyond a masters in EE, CS or ME in patent law has always been over kill. I can only advise those who have invested the time and money in a PhD to pick a top law school and get good grades. 

[scientist30]

Just based on personal observation, it seems there are alot of people coming out of law school with both JDs and PhDs. Recently, in the firm that I work at, we had alot of people interview for summer associateships already having PhDs in various areas, mainly basic sciences. I'm sure the lack of jobs in industry and academia have something to do with that

Agreed but I am only skeptical that in fields where Ph.D.s have tough time getting jobs, they would find lot of IP to do.  I am a Ph.D. laid off from Pharma, but there does not seem to be lot of opportunities in IP either, but thinking about it, if Pharma cuts down, does it not also effect the IP jobs in this area? Just my 2 cents.

[virus_guy]

Ya, I agree that belt-tightening in pharma probably affects IP jobs in the area. There aren't alot IP opportunities these days and if there are, they all seem to want experience. I think PhDs who might be displaced from pharma or who don't want to do research anymore might want to pursue a JD with the idea that this will synergize with their PhD if they decide to get into patents, particularly in biotech. I don't know anyone who went to grad school to get a Phd thinking it will be a stepping stone to patent law. That would just be crazy to me. I certainly didn't have that idea going into grad school.

[Sixes]

I don't know anyone who went to grad school to get a Phd thinking it will be a stepping stone to patent law. That would just be crazy to me. I certainly didn't have that idea going into grad school.

Funny you should say this.  I interviewed at a firm a few weeks ago and one of the attorneys, who had a biotech PhD, had been a co-inventor on a patent when he was in grad school.  I asked if that spurred him to be a patent attorney.  He said no...he had wanted to be a PhD/patent lawyer since he was a kid and had a great background story as to why.  It was fascinating to be honest.