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[patentologist]

I am currently working for a small IP boutique (in At lan ta).  I have been a prosecution atty for the past 2 yrs. Graduated from a top ten undergrad program in BSEE with a 2.88 GPA and a Tier 4 law school with a ranked IP program in the top 33% of my class. Clearly not a stellar academic record. That being said, I still want to excel in my career and get into a big (bigger) firm.

What can I do to improve my candidacy.  I think joining some sort of patent law committee or IP association might help. what is the best way to jooin and what should i join. what will have the largest impact on my resume.

[Wiscagent]

what is the best way to jooin and what should i join. what will have the largest impact on my resume.

Learn to write in complete sentences.  Use proper spelling.  Check punctuation and capitalization on everything you write.

[dablueman]

What can I do to improve my candidacy.  I think joining some sort of patent law committee or IP association might help. what is the best way to jooin and what should i join. what will have the largest impact on my resume.

Being active in the intellectual property section of your state bar association could help you get the connections and contacts you need. Though I'm not sure you'd be able to overcome the tier 4 law school. To be honest I didn't even know there was a tier 4 law school, I thought the rankings stopped at tier 3.

[MYK]

To be honest I didn't even know there was a tier 4 law school, I thought the rankings stopped at tier 3.

There isn't even a "tier 2" any more.  USNWR just ranks them and lists all of the top 100 (plus any ties that extend into the next few) as "tier 1".

Just checked, though, and they now *do* divide the rest into T3 and T4, with the cutoff at (about) 150 (really, looks like 144).  Two years ago, I seem to recall that they didn't do that.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/rankings

[patentologist]

I went to JMLS in chicago. I think they're Tier 4 but top 20 in IP. Does that help me any?

[superman10]

I'm the opposite: BSEE in a big law firm and getting sucked into litigation cases left and right, when all I want to do is prosecution.  I would love to have done just prosecution my first two years, because I feel like long term, I want the stable, albeit boring, lifestyle that comes with prosecution.

Is patent prosecution in a big law firm dead? And to the OP, do you just want to go to a big law firm, do you want to get out of prosecution, or both?

[patentologist]

I just want to go to a big law firm to get the brand name on my resume. Try to ride it out as long as I can.  I started out doing pros. and i dont think i have the drive to do litigation. prefer a more stable, steady career. From a big firm, I hope to maybe start my own shop by "stealing a share of the big firm's" business.

[klaviernista]

I just want to go to a big law firm to get the brand name on my resume. Try to ride it out as long as I can.  I started out doing pros. and i dont think i have the drive to do litigation. prefer a more stable, steady career. From a big firm, I hope to maybe start my own shop by "stealing a share of the big firm's" business.

Having come from a "big" IP boutique, I have a couple of thoughts on this.  First, the benefit you stated (getting the "band name" on your resume) is a real one.  I probably would not have landed my current in house gig without the firm name that was on my resume (confirmed this with the president and CEO after I was hired).  However, there is a real downside to working for a big patent law firm, as opposed to a smaller or mid-size firm.  For lack of a better term, I'll call that down side "under exposure."  Meaning that in a big law firm, it may very well take you significantly longer to be exposed to meaningful work.  E.g., you might spend 2-3 years or more before you are even offered a shot to assist on an opinion.  As for IP transactional work, well, you might never see any of that unless you are in bed with the 2-3 partners in the firm that handle ALL of it.  In a smaller firm, you have a much better shot at doing more varied types of work earlier  (provided the firm has that type of work, of course)

Not that I am trying to over-emphasize the negative aspects of working in a big law firm.  I'm just trying to provide a more rounded view.  I think a lot of law students have this impression that working for a big law firm (IP or otherwaise) is the be all and end all of things, when in fact it can stunt your growth as an attorney if you are not careful.

Good luck,

Klav

[stuffball]

I don't speak from experience, but I've also heard that it's not very easy to go in house unless you've worked at a big firm.  Still possible, but you have to know and impress somebody high up.

[bald & chained]

Working in a big firm also gives you additional networking opportunities.  I often see emails about in-house opportunities circulated firm-wide. I also know a number of former associates who went in-house to my firm's clients.

[AnotherCog]

Superman10 touched on this, but I figured I'd give my two pesos.  Biglaw, in general, was hit hard by the recession and prosecution hasn't been much of a safe harbor, either.  Applications are down, thanks to the USPTO limiting allowances, and clients are looking to trim legal budgets by going with small-midsize firms.  Nearly all of the biglaw firms that do prosecution work have laid off patent attorneys and are currently in hiring freezes.  These same firms also have deferred start dates for incoming associates and have untapped pools of talent, should work increase.  Firms aren't likely to fill new positions with outside attorneys when they're literally paying people to spend their days playing X-Box.  The few lateral positions that are out there tend to be highly-specialized.  These positions usually go to those attorneys laid off by other biglaw firms, since pedigree means everything in biglaw.

Your best bet is to wait out the recession and be willing to move at the drop of a hat.  Firms are going to be scrambling for patent talent, once the economy turns around.  This is especially true in secondary markets.  Everyone wants to move to places like San Francisco, but who really wants to move to Cleveland, OH? 

From a big firm, I hope to maybe start my own shop by "stealing a share of the big firm's" business.

Good luck with that.  You won't see client contact until you're close to making partner.  Even then, you'll be trying to court in-house lawyers that have established relationships with the firm and likely used to work at the firm.     

[khazzah]

From a big firm, I hope to maybe start my own shop by "stealing a share of the big firm's" business.

Good luck with that.  You won't see client contact until you're close to making partner.  Even then, you'll be trying to court in-house lawyers that have established relationships with the firm and likely used to work at the firm.    

I agree with the overall conclusion (hard to convince a client to leave with you). And with the second part -- the inhouse attorneys have established relationships with the firm.

But not with the first. I would expect a patent prosecutor working with large corporate clients to have a fair amount of contact with the inhouse IP attorneys. Inhouse IP attorneys often review applications, responses, etc. So you'll exchange emails and phone calls with those inhouse attorneys. And outside of large corporate clients, you may have regular contact with a general counsel of MidCorp. or even a CEO of SmallCo. because BigPartner isn't interested in dealing with the little fish.

Patent pros -- because it's a series of small single-person tasks -- is fundamentally different than larger team-based projects. With large projects, it makes more sense for the partner to act as the single point of client contact, and rely on team members to keep him informed -- leaving you with little client contact.

In patent pros, I suppose its possible for the partner in charge to insist on *all* the paperwork going through him, leaving you out of the loop completely. But that's inefficient -- you're the one doing the work, so you're the one with the answers.

[Ruined_My_Life]

Is it true that once you've worked for a medium-sized firm or a small patent group at a mediocre gen'l practice firm, your chances of getting into a big name IP firm are very low?  I'm fact checking a colleagues comments.  More specifically, she said that a candidate with a T14 JD and a PhD would never be hired at a top IP firm because of his/her having worked at a firm towards the end of the vault 100 (not known for patents).  Would a candidate with a T100 JD and a bachelor's be a better candidate just because he/she spent 2 years as a student associate at Finnegan?

[bald & chained]

ha? Isn't Finnegan itself hovering around that top 100 spot in Vault's rankings (as if anyone cares?) And since when did top IP boutiques get all that selective with hiring?  I think your source is full of it.  As long as the hypothetical person is not too senior and has the skills that the so-called top IP firm is looking for, I think that person should be able to lateral (assuming the top IP boutique is even hiring now).

[ChiefJRoberts]

it's impossible to get into a big firm at this point. they are being very snobbish, even moreso than usual. with many laid off attorneys, they can be picky about whom they hire. IMO i'm not sure it's even worth working at big firms with 2000 billable hour requirements.