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[another current examiner]

So, off to the PTO I went.  After three years at the PTO I can honestly say that it was the best decision.  It has not always been easy, and there were times that I wondered what the heck I got myself into.  But eventually I started to learn the politics of the PTO; even how to deal with the terrible SPEs, which a lot of them exist at the PTO.

I have always received an outstanding rating, which I mostly attribute to taking pride in the work I do.  I have never had a complaint, and have never had an error attributed to me. 
 
These last two years have been some of the most happiest in my life, when I finally realized that I don’t have to make more money than the next guy, when I realized I don’t have to care what other people think about me, or the place I work.  Yes, I know I should have realized this earlier in life, but some of us are always late to the party.

At the PTO I work 8 hours a day, have weekends and holidays off, and make over 100K a year.  I actually have taken vacations (long ones) with my wife.  I remember after about a year at the PTO my wife looked at me one day and said “wow, I haven’t seen you smile this much in a long time.” 

I don’t know if everyone on this board can say they are satisfied in their life, but I do know one thing for sure; I have never known a satisfied person who spends time denigrating others.

This is my advice.  If you want to work for the PTO, do it.  Don’t think working for the PTO is going to hurt your chances for working at a law firm.  I know people who have retired from the PTO and went to work at a law firm.  I know several Primary Examiners who have left the PTO for a law firm.  That’s at least 5 years of service.  Moreover, the chances are extremely unlikely that you would be at the PTO for 10 years and then want to go to a law firm.  By this time you’re invested substantially in your retirement at the PTO.  Leaving then would be unwise, unless you have your own reasons that supersede this.

However, if you want to work at a law firm, then do that instead.  I have a friend that’s been at the PTO for three years now and he always talks about leaving for a law firm.  I told him to go for it.  If you don’t like it, you can always come back. 

The point is this.  You need to find what makes you happy.  Mine happens to be a work/life balance, of which I found at the PTO.

I do want to say one final thing.  One comment on this board disturbed me enough that I must respond to it.

This comment is below.  Note that the comment I am commenting on is actually a comment to a comment.  Does that make sense? 

The first comment was:
“pay can reach up to around 170k (base + overtime + 11% bonus (3% SAA, 7% Gainsharing, 1% Amendment))”

A response to this comment was:
“After being there upteen years and your skill set is depleted, you might make 130 - 150 if lucky.”

My response to this response is:
Top-out pay is 155K, set by statute.  If your motivated you can probably make this (or close to this) within 10 years, if they reinstate overtime.  Not sure how bonuses play into this.

The first comment was:
“5% dollar for dollar match on TSP (401k))”

A response to this comment was:
“Great, as long as the stock market is on the rise.”

My response to this response is:
This is a hard comment to respond to.  It’s hard to seriously respond to the logic that a 5% match in the TSP is a bad thing.  I would recommend you see a financial advisor if you don’t understand the benefit of this.  Also, anyone who does not invest in stocks at a young age (including a patent attorney) is an idiot.  Any financial advisor worth the money he/she charges would tell you the same.  I hope your point of this was not to say why the PTO is a bad place to work.  If so, I would like to know where you invest your money and if you get a matching amount from your law firm.  Also, since TSP and 401K is maxed out at I think 16.5K per person, this 5% is clearly beneficial.  This means, at 100K a year in salary, I am putting in 21.5K a year into a TSP while a patent attorney is limited to 16.5K.

The first comment was:
“work from anywhere in U.S.”
 
A response to this comment was:
“I thought you had to live within 50 miles of the PTO in order to have the option of not coming in.”

My response to this response is:
If you live within 50 miles of the PTO you do not need to return to the PTO.  If you live outside of 50 miles, you need to come back twice a bi-week.  I live over 1000 miles away, and I come back roughly once a month for 5 days.  The law to change this requirement has already been passed.  The PTO is working on new requirements.  As I understand, the PTO is looking to have people return possible once a quarter, with the travel time paid for.  That is, you would take non-production time for your travel time.  They would not, however, pay for your ticket or gas to return.  However, this is only what I have heard, so don’t quote me on this.   

POST IS CONTINUED BELOW

[another current examiner]

The first comment was:
“federal pension which is locked in after a mere 5 years of work”

A response to this comment was:
“Trust me, the pension is a joke.” 

My response to this response is::
This is where I almost chocked on the ice cube I was eating.  Let’s do some math.  FERS (the current federal retirement system) started in 1983.  If you started at the PTO at age 25 in 1983, you would retire in 2013 with 30 years of service, at the age of 55 (I forgot to include the MRA here, see a resposne to my comment below where I was corrected).  If you took a 100% survivor benefit, your retirement would be $46,035 a year for the rest of your life, with a cost of living adjustment each year.  This assumes that you max out at 155K a year, which you should most likely do with 30 years of service.   This 100% survivor benefit means that if you die before your spouse, your spouse would receive 25,575 for the rest of their life, plus a yearly cost of living increase I beleive. 
If you think that $46,035 a year for the rest of your life, with a cost of living adjustment each year, is a joke, then I guess you’re in a way higher socioeconomic class than I.  If you also maxed out your TSP for your working years, and you were smart with your finances, you will enjoy a very comfortable retirement.

The first comment was:
“3.9 weeks vacation/2.6 weeks sick per year after 3 years.”

A response to this comment was:
“When I left, even the PTO had to admit that the examiners were often burning their vacation in order to meet their production, which is why they tried to institute a "flat goal" program. Having said that, now that they actually have some quality management at the top, maybe things will change.”

My response to this response is:
I thought people here were saying that there was massive time keeping fraud at the PTO, of which a special unit to investigate was required.
Either way, please let me know which law firm offers 3.9 weeks vacation/2.6 weeks sick taken off your billable hours per year after 3 years, and also the ability to use your sick time to add service time to your FERS computation.

The first comment was:
“10 holidays per year (2 weeks off)”

A response to this comment was:
“See the above.”

My response to this response is:
See the above.

The first comment was:
“completely flexible work schedule (e.g., eligible to take an additional 10 weeks off with comp time)”

A response to this comment was:
True, you have lots of flexibility with no free time.

My response to this response is:
More free time than a patent attorney will ever have.

The first comment was:
“A law firm would have to offer at least 250k to match the pay and benefits a good examiner can earn.”

A response to this comment was:
“Being a patent lawyer is intellectually challenging, and you never stop learning. Intellectually speaking, being a patent examiner is like putting a coffee can over a growing plant. And patent attorneys can always use their skills in a variety of settings. The only thing a patent examiner can do is become a searcher. That is, unless they are an attorney, or they become an agent.”

My response to this response is:
And?  My job no longer defines me.  I don’t have to have a job to be intellectually challenged.  I am hoteling.  I make my wife coffee every morning before she goes to work.  I have dinner waiting for her when she gets home.  I spent two days trying to fix my sprinkler system before I finally called someone in to repair it.  In my free time I read books about philosophy (still can’t understand most of it), history, and science.  I actually spend half of my lunch hour playing with my dogs and shoveling up their dog poop from my backyard.  Now, I understand that most people may not be happy doing that, but I am.

Another benefit that people forget to mention here, FERS employees with 30 years of service get to keep their medical benefits for the rest of their life.  It also transfers to their spouse.  The only requirement is to pay the premium that current federal employees pay.  No Patent Attorney will ever get this.  While others are having their care rationed through Medicare, retired federal employees need not worry.  We also get great life insurance that does get more expensive as you age.  We also have disability insurance. 

While I am living, and when I die, the most important thing for me is to make sure that my family is happy (while I am alive) and taken care of (when I die).  While there are no guarantees in life, the PTO gives you much more security than a law firm ever will.  This is not to denigrate law firms.  If you play your cards right, you can save up enough money for most of these things.  However, the family sacrifice for the money was not worth it for me.

These are just my opinions, and I know that there are buts for everything.  I could screw up and get fired, I could get laid off, FERS retirement may change.  Well maybe, or maybe not.  I can’t control what may or may not happen.  I am just trying to do the best with what I have.

POST IS CONTINUED BELOW

[another current examiner]

My final advice, find what makes you happy and do it, whether that’s at the PTO or in a law firm, or outside of patent law.  And in the mean time, respect other people’s decisions.  Not everyone who works at the PTO works there for lack of different options.

I wrote this long post so that people that have similar experiences as I will seriously consider the PTO.  While there are a lot of posts here that are true, not every ones experiences are the same.  Also, some of the posts are complete BS.

I have found the PTO to be rewarding and fulfilling.  Besides, its fun knowing that some patent attorneys get angry when someone with out a law degree rejects their clients patent application.  However, I found most patent attorneys and patent agents to be respectful and cordial while working with me, the MPEP requires it.  

Sorry for the long post.  If anyone has any questions, please feel free to PM me or post here.

END OF POST

[LivingItUp]

My response to this response is::
If you started at the PTO at age 25 in 1983, you would retire in 2013 with 30 years of service, at the age of 55. 

Great stuff ACE (Another Current Examiner)

only that there is MRA (minimum retirement age)

I will just add a slight clarification.

See, http://www.opm.gov/retire/faq/pre/faq11.asp

the MRA for those born after 1970 is 57

[another current examiner]

Thanks for the clarification about the MRA.  I was going off-the-cuff a little.  Also, the website you posted is great to look at to see what your benefits are for working as a government employee.   

[Yet another examiner]

Sorry, but I just say what I think are the problems at the PTO, like cheating on overtime, SPE's who don't earn their keep and should be doing some of the examining, or people like Dudas and company who I thought did a poor job. If people want to disagree, that's fine. But if they want to shove a pie in my face, then I might just shove one back.

That's fair enough. We do need to hear about the negative aspects to the job and problems with how the PTO is run. I'm not trying to shove a pie in anyone's face, but I do think the job isn't nearly 1/10th as bad as you make it out to be, and your characterization of the people who work there is similarly exaggerated. That's just my perspective. Maybe I just got lucky and wound up in the sunshine and puppies art unit.

[horsechute]

"Maybe I just got lucky and wound up in the sunshine and puppies art unit"

Or, maybe you just have not worked there long enough. I think most people find it is sunshine, puppies and rainbows their first year or two. But I am glad things are working out for you.

And frankly, I don't think anyone really cares about any negative remarks made about the PTO. When they need jobs, they will apply. When the economy is good, they will usually look elsewhere. For example, during the tech boom in the early 2000's, the PTO lost 40% of the examining corps, and about a year ago, I remember people here were making remarks about there being somewhere around 8,000 applicants for a limited number of openings.

[Yet another examiner]

Amazing post ACE. Should be required reading for anyone thinking about working here.

So I decided on the PTO.  I remember the look on the face of my recruiter when I told him I was going to go to the PTO instead of the law firm jobs that were offered.  It was somewhere between utter disgust and complete surprise.

Know what you mean; I got exactly the same treatment from some friends and coworkers when I left industry.

[klaviernista]

Good post(s), ACE.  I totally agree with everything you have said.  Like you, I think that the PTO offers a work life balance that few jobs can offer.  And you are absolutely right that everyone needs to find their own happiness in life.  Right now, I'm satisfied working for a small IP firm and teaching part time.  But I have often considered going back to the PTO.  If I didn' have a small child that I want to see, I probably would be back there (meaning that the 6 months I would have to spend at the PTO to become eligible for hotelling as a reinstated employee are not worth it missing time spent with my 2.5 year old).

As to timekeeping fraud, that is a real issue.  Or at least it was as of a little over a year ago. 

[Agent_X]

Great post ACE.

Contrary to the image portrayed by the overwhelming amount of negative horsechute posts there are some people who have found happiness at the USPTO.  If you have time to dig through the history of this thread you will find them buried among all the other banter.  Unfortunately, happy people don't tend to frequent forums to praise their current job situation as much as angry people.

The job has flaws like everything else in life.  The job also has rewarding perks when it comes to quality of life.

Some people will like the job and others won't.  If anyone reading this is thinking about it (when hiring resumes) go in with your eyes wide open.

[horsechute]

Great post ACE!

there are some people who have found happiness at the USPTO. 

What you have to remember is that Klaviernista only spent a few years at the PTO, and Agent_X recently passed the patent bar, which indicates to me that he too will soon be leaving the patent office. So you can say what you want, but actions speak louder than words.

And if you want a good a good cross-section of views from patent examiners, and how "happy" they are, see the "just an examiner blog". At least the examiners there, unlike ACE/ Klaviernista/Agent_X, appear to have more than two (or three at most) years of experience, which makes their views credible. Many jobs are interesting, if not fun, for the first year or two. For newly hired examiners like ACE to sing praises to patent examining is kind of like a newlywed saying what a great institution marriage is. You really cannot justifiably do that until after a reasonable passage of time.

[Examiner XXX]

Alright, so just let me say that I'm another current examiner and I am very happy with my job situation.  I agree that the negative stigma of the Patent Office is supremely overblown. 

As for a background, I went to the PTO with the original intention to eventually go to full time law school after a few years of experience.  About two years in, as good friends of mine (also quality examiners) decided to go off to law school, I decided to stick around, and changed my goals to part time law school.  Here I am now about four years later and I must admit that the chances of me going to law school seem less likely every day.

After plenty of years of thinking, sitting on the brim of retaking the LSAT and contemplating attending a part-time local school (e.g. one of the Georges), I've come to the hard truth that going the private route would be for three reasons: 1) salary 2) prestige and 3) intellectual opportunity.

I'm going to parse over each and my reasons for staying. 

Number 1, although patent attorneys may rake in 150k-200k a year in their early staging, I'm fairly certain they're also working almost twice as much.  I also feel that like many things in life, salary has a diminishing marginal utility e.g. making 100k vs. 50k is substantially more awesome than making 150k vs. 100k.  Yes, maybe you'll make 200k+ but, MY GOD, the amount of slaving that needs to be done over the course of several years or a decade to get there seems beyond compensation.  I'm 27 and I'm making around 100k (with the looming on and off OT).  I'm not rich, but I'm certainly living comfortably.  The new policies governing telework will only make the salaries more inviting (Corn palace in Iowa?).  In a few years with modest overtime I'll be in the 120-150k range with most primaries.  I'll never own a yacht, but I'd have plenty of time to sail on one if I did.  Somebody on this forum once had a great quote, (not verbatim) that "the world has a funny way of paying for your life".  That really struck me, and the 50K less I'll be making throughout my career stages will be worth the occasional noon wake ups and the "I feel like flexing today and sitting by the pool". (If you haven't followed, that 50K differential is paying for an enormous amount of time off and flexibility).

Number 2, this is probably wishy washy.  Maybe we all had dreams of donning an Armani suit, carrying a fancy briefcase, and winking at the babes.  "Oh, this engineer is different, my god, its a sexy lawyer!"  But seriously, other than the ultra fancy litigation gigs, this is mostly analogous to the CSI shows on TV which make being a homicide detective look like a sweet job rather than what it really is: cold calling a bunch of degenerates and perusing around bad neighborhoods.  I've heard plenty of prosecution attorneys' voices crack.  You can also dress nice at the PTO instead of the sweatpants (and nobody will notice).  Its about how you present yourself and a passion for your job.  If a pretty girl hears "law" and "engineering" in the same sentence, you're probably as well off as an examiner as an attorney.

Number 3, Somebody before said it best.  Your job doesn't define you.  The Flextime and good hours at the PTO offers one an abundance of time to read, develop hobbies, and enjoy life.  I do feel like I could "do more" sometimes.  I feel like I'd be good at law school and could kill the LSAT, but these things don't define you, unless you want them to.  It's also an unfair comparison.  Is my job more, "jump through the hoops" than the average day of an attorney? Most likely, but I'm also willing to bet my job is more interesting than 90% of other jobs out there.

This all being said, a job at the PTO is most definitely not for everyone.  I had a friend who had a short tenure.  He wasn't big on reading, wasn't big on vocabulary, and didn't particularly like writing. He'd be great at fixing machinery and doing equations though.  It's really a legal orientated job so reading and writing are essential.  Its amazing to me sometimes how people who call the fish fillets "Fill - its" in the cafeteria could possibly be construing claim language professionally (Not that a handle on adopted French words is a necessity, but you get the point).

An aside:

I had a tirade (three erased paragraphs) on the whole timekeeping hubbub but felt a public forum wasn't the best place for that discussion.  It included discussions of the de facto pure production system, morality, and philosophies of labor, but the straight dope was that there is no incentive for examiners to create rushed and non-quality actions, even with the lure of unworked OT, because such actions create a myriad of time-intensive problems down the road, easily eclipsing any amount saved through careless actions.  If you're eking out extra crap actions to claim unworked OT every week, my god, that would compound on you so fast. In 6 months the poop storm would begin to fall.  The one quality thing the TQAS have espoused in my short tenure in the office is compact prosecution e.g. doin' it right the first time.

[LivingItUp]

Alright, so just let me say that I'm another current examiner and I am very happy with my job situation.  I agree that the negative stigma of the Patent Office is supremely overblown. 

Here are some other concerns that come up on this site:

a. I come from a family of high status or money, how's it going to sound when I have to tell people I work as a public servant examiner ?

b. I have some degree of Narcissistic personality disorder, how can I ever feel satisfied as an examiner, that I am truly better than others?

c. I suffer from an ailing ego, won't making fun of examiners, and bolstering my lawyer job, make me feel better?

d. The examiner job is a cop out for people who don't have what it takes to make it as a lawyer.

e. My family & friends already think I am stupid for going to school for 10 years, racking up 100k in debt, never working, and presently living at home with mom until I find my first law job. The last thing I am going to do is lower my standards and work as as an examiner. I would be seen as a failure.

[blaze1306]

The new policies governing telework will only make the salaries more inviting (Corn palace in Iowa?). 

What new policies are being considered? I graduate from law school in about a year and I would gladly work for the PTO if I didnt have to live in DC or near Detroit. I would suck it up and work as hard as possible to begin telework as soon as I could so I could live in a good area. Other examiners say the big draw is being able to work your 8 hours a day and go home, which is much better than a firm. I heard the proposed policy was to allow you only to have to come into the office once a quarter. Is this true?

[horsechute]

a. I come from a family of high status or money, how's it going to sound when I have to tell people I work as a public servant examiner ?

Who cares what your family thinks, just as long as you are in the will.

b. I have some degree of Narcissistic personality disorder, how can I ever feel satisfied as an examiner, that I am truly better than others?

This is actually more of a factor than people want to admit. Status is important to most people. But that kind of attitude is guaranteed to make you unhappy; it results in petty jealousies, and status often changes. Especially lately.

c. I suffer from an ailing ego, won't making fun of examiners, and bolstering my lawyer job, make me feel better?

Attorneys (patent prosecution) and examiners are essentially playing a chess game, and it is natural for people like attorneys to try to belittle examiners, which is kind of a shame. Then again, examiners don't have to live in the real world (ie, sometimes get clients, live without civil service protection, worry about malpractice, etc) and they too often make fun of lawyers, and critique their work like they are members of the Federal Circuit.

d. The examiner job is a cop out for people who don't have what it takes to make it as a lawyer.

Or people who are afraid to make the leap. Of course, these are difficult times so I can't blame examiners who went to law school for staying in the PTO safe haven, although after a while this tends to make you unemployable as a lawyer.

e. My family & friends already think I am stupid for going to school for 10 years, racking up 100k in debt, never working, and presently living at home with mom until I find my first law job. The last thing I am going to do is lower my standards and work as as an examiner. I would be seen as a failure. 
 
Your family would love you to get an examiner job. They want you out of the house.