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Author Topic: Working for the USPTO  (Read 827289 times)

physwm2501

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Re: Working for the USPTO
« Reply #4485 on: 10-15-10 at 11:38 am »

For the people working at the PTO what would say is the predominant age group is in the offices or is it distributed pretty evenly?
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Yet another examiner

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Re: Working for the USPTO
« Reply #4486 on: 10-16-10 at 08:56 am »

For the people working at the PTO what would say is the predominant age group is in the offices or is it distributed pretty evenly?

In general, it's usually predominantly young people out of college, but with the economy in a wreck, there are some older people from industry and even private practice making a career reboot.
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Yet another examiner

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Re: Working for the USPTO
« Reply #4487 on: 10-16-10 at 09:03 am »


2nd',   What's the normal dress code for the training and for examiners?

There's no official dress code, but I'd recommend business casual at least until you get into the TC. Dress code for examiners is more or less what you can get away with. I go in jeans, but I dress it up if I've got a meeting with my SPE. Certainly you should break out the tie if you've got an attorney interview.

Also, if your production is low I imagine it might be best for you to not be seen in a T-shirt and jeans.
 
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greencha

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Re: Working for the USPTO
« Reply #4488 on: 10-19-10 at 09:57 am »

My question boils down to: if you get an offer for an Examiner position in a particular tech field, and you would prefer to be in a different tech field, is there anything you can do about it?

I was fortunate enough to recently get an offer to be an EE Patent Examiner at the USPTO.  I am happy to get the offer.  However, as I consider taking up a long-term career at the USPTO, I am thinking that I would strongly prefer to be in a technology field that is different from the one that I was given an offer in.  If I were given a job in one of my preferred technology fields, I feel like I would be a lot more enthusiastic and a much more productive worker.  I am wondering what would be the best way to get access to my desired technology field, and would appreciate hearing other people's insights and advice (particularly, of course, from current or ex-Examiners.)  The following options comes to mind:

1. I could negotiate with my hiring contact at the USPTO (i.e., the person who called me and gave me the offer, she seems pretty nice.)
2. I could take the offer and see how the job goes.  After working for a while, I could apply to shift to a different technology center.
3. I could directly contact SPEs in the preferred technology centers and see if there are any openings and interest in a person of my background.
4. I could refuse the offer and reapply later with the the hope that I would be placed in a different technology group.
5. Other options?

I would really appreciate your thoughts on any of the above options.  I also had one other, related question: when you are assigned to a particular art unit as a new Examiner, could you end up working on any application with a class/subclass that is covered by that art unit?  Or do Examiners get really specialized (for example, are Examiners assigned to specific subclasses?)  Thank you in advance for your help!   

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dicehawk

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Re: Working for the USPTO
« Reply #4489 on: 10-20-10 at 12:46 pm »

Anybody looking for a roommate?  I start November 8 and I am looking to rent a place in Alexandria or Clarendon area.  I am a 30 year old male.  Fairly laid back.  Enjoy watching sports (KC Chiefs/Texas Longhorns) and going to see live music(Phish/My Morning Jacket).  PM me if you're interested.
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horsechute

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Re: Working for the USPTO
« Reply #4490 on: 10-20-10 at 01:39 pm »

(if) "you would prefer to be in a different tech field, is there anything you can do about it?"

Just get your foot in the door, you can transfer later. At first, you are just learning how to do things like combining a glass of beer with a shovel, and initial your name on government forms. You may go to the technology you love, and find out your SPE is a real bastard. The best thing to do is to find out what your SPE will be like in advance. As for your long term interest in the job, well, best of luck in that department.

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michlgle

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Re: Working for the USPTO
« Reply #4491 on: 10-20-10 at 09:35 pm »

I have a 3 BR/3.5 BA townhouse for rent next to the van dorn metro (one stop away from USPTO).  I am a current patent examiner who is moving further away now that I am working from home.  This location would be ideal for any new patent examiners.  Please contact: hcforrent@gmail.com for more information!
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Yet another examiner

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Re: Working for the USPTO
« Reply #4492 on: 10-21-10 at 01:51 pm »

1. I could negotiate with my hiring contact at the USPTO (i.e., the person who called me and gave me the offer, she seems pretty nice.)
2. I could take the offer and see how the job goes.  After working for a while, I could apply to shift to a different technology center.
3. I could directly contact SPEs in the preferred technology centers and see if there are any openings and interest in a person of my background.
4. I could refuse the offer and reapply later with the the hope that I would be placed in a different technology group.
5. Other options?

The correct answer is number 2.
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greencha

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Re: Working for the USPTO
« Reply #4493 on: 10-24-10 at 01:28 pm »

I would like to ask ex- and current Examiners to share some of their thoughts on the pressures of their workplace.  I am considering joining the USPTO as an Examiner and have already received an offer.  A large part of the reason why I would join is because I have heard from some that it's a fairly easy going lifestyle -- the work can sometimes be boring but not terribly stressful. On the other hand, as I search these forums I hear of people who are putting in 10 or 12 hour days and feel terribly stressed. 

If you could share some of your insights into what life is like for a 1st year or 2nd year Examiner at the USPTO,I would appreciate it. In particular, I am wondering:
1. How many hours are you working a day or week in your first year as an Examiner?
2. In the first year, is it very stressful?  In particular, are the production quotas hard to meet?
3. Is it common that people get fired for coming under quota during the two-year probationary period?
4. Does working as an Examiner mix well with raising a kid and spending a lot of quality family time?

Thank you for your thoughts. 
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ExaminerEsq

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Re: Working for the USPTO
« Reply #4494 on: 10-24-10 at 02:24 pm »

I would like to ask ex- and current Examiners to share some of their thoughts on the pressures of their workplace.  I am considering joining the USPTO as an Examiner and have already received an offer.  A large part of the reason why I would join is because I have heard from some that it's a fairly easy going lifestyle -- the work can sometimes be boring but not terribly stressful. On the other hand, as I search these forums I hear of people who are putting in 10 or 12 hour days and feel terribly stressed. 

If you could share some of your insights into what life is like for a 1st year or 2nd year Examiner at the USPTO,I would appreciate it. In particular, I am wondering:
1. How many hours are you working a day or week in your first year as an Examiner?
2. In the first year, is it very stressful?  In particular, are the production quotas hard to meet?
3. Is it common that people get fired for coming under quota during the two-year probationary period?
4. Does working as an Examiner mix well with raising a kid and spending a lot of quality family time?

Thank you for your thoughts. 

To answer your questions:
1. If you are GS-5/7, you can't work voluntary overtime and can't be there past 5 pm. 

2.  I've only been there a month, but I've only done about maybe 1 full day of actual real work.  So far the training academy has been very class intensive, which means you just sit there and listen. 

3. In your first year, you don't have to meet production right away.  The SPEs focus on seeing progress over time.  And if you are a GS-5/7, you have lots of time to meet your production, so if you're unable to meet it, you either have poor time management skills or have poor analytical skills.

4. If you don't feel comfortable raising a family while working at the PTO, I don't think the family life is for you.  It's a government job.  You're only required to work 40 hours a week.  They have really good benefits and stress worklife balance. 
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MechD

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Re: Working for the USPTO
« Reply #4495 on: 10-24-10 at 10:14 pm »

If you could share some of your insights into what life is like for a 1st year or 2nd year Examiner at the USPTO,I would appreciate it. In particular, I am wondering:
1. How many hours are you working a day or week in your first year as an Examiner?
2. In the first year, is it very stressful?  In particular, are the production quotas hard to meet?
3. Is it common that people get fired for coming under quota during the two-year probationary period?
4. Does working as an Examiner mix well with raising a kid and spending a lot of quality family time?

Disregard everything the previous guy wrote. Life in the academy is nothing like the actual job.

1) This depends heavily on your particular art and how quickly you are catching on. Some have a hard time and have to work weekends. Some catch on real quick and are working far less than 40 hours.
2) The first year is fairly easy. 1 year-1.5 year is the hardest time by far. This is when you are getting back amendments from your poor early first actions, and having to do a lot of re-work for no credit. There is more pressure to keep your production high, even, and steady during the first two years than you will feel afterwards. After you get past 2 years, you're free and clear.
3) If you're going to get fired, they will do so within the first two years. Something like 30% of new examiners either get fired or quit in lieu of being fired during this time. I know one guy who got fired 1 week short of two years for "rollercoastering" i.e. meeting his quarterly quota, but not keeping it steady week to week. After two years it is very difficult to get rid of somebody. Just be sure to keep your production over 100% every biweek until your probation is over. 95% says "I'm a slacker that does the bare minimum" and most SPEs don't like that. After two years, 95% is OK.
4) Depends heavily on how good you are at your job plus other things you can't control. If you luck out and get a decent art and reasonable SPE, you can work 30 hours a week and have 3 day weekends every week. Get an unreasonable SPE, and you're life will be a living hell and you will quit/get canned and join the scores of disgruntled ex-examiners out there.
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greencha

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Re: Working for the USPTO
« Reply #4496 on: 10-25-10 at 10:49 am »

Quote
This depends heavily on your particular art and how quickly you are catching on. Some have a hard time and have to work weekends. Some catch on real quick and are working far less than 40 hours.
2) The first year is fairly easy. 1 year-1.5 year is the hardest time by far. This is when you are getting back amendments from your poor early first actions, and having to do a lot of re-work for no credit. There is more pressure to keep your production high, even, and steady during the first two years than you will feel afterwards. After you get past 2 years, you're free and clear.
3) If you're going to get fired, they will do so within the first two years. Something like 30% of new examiners either get fired or quit in lieu of being fired during this time. I know one guy who got fired 1 week short of two years for "rollercoastering" i.e. meeting his quarterly quota, but not keeping it steady week to week. After two years it is very difficult to get rid of somebody. Just be sure to keep your production over 100% every biweek until your probation is over. 95% says "I'm a slacker that does the bare minimum" and most SPEs don't like that. After two years, 95% is OK.
4) Depends heavily on how good you are at your job plus other things you can't control. If you luck out and get a decent art and reasonable SPE, you can work 30 hours a week and have 3 day weekends every week. Get an unreasonable SPE, and you're life will be a living hell and you will quit/get canned and join the scores of disgruntled ex-examiners out there.
Thank you for your comments, they're really helpful.  I had some follow-up questions:
1) MechD wrote that how easy the work is depends a lot on your art.  I would appreciate hearing more details about what that means exactly.  For example, my art field seems to be broad but not technically terribly advanced (i.e., not advanced physics, chemistry, biotech, but straightforward engineering and computer science.)  In other words, I think I will have no problem quickly grasping the technical aspects.  But are technically non-advanced areas necessarily easier to examine?  Could they be harder in some areas (e.g., software methods), because they are just too abstract or broad to find prior art for?  Or are the odds good that my field will generally be easier to deal with?
2) Also, in your view, what is it that the Examiner has to grasp quickly to be efficient and have an easier time of it?  For example, MechD wrote that how easy the job is depends on how quickly you catch on.  I have done some patent prosecution work in the past, and feel quite comfortable with, for example, claims and examiner interviews.  Will that make my job a lot easier?  Or is there something else that determines whether you "catch on" quickly?
3) I'll be starting as a GS9, not a 5 or 7.  Will that put a lot more pressure on me to produce?
4) I know who my SPE is, and he seems very nice on the phone.  Of course, I can't say I really know him very well.  A lot of people have noted that the SPE makes or breaks your job.  Is there some way of finding out how easiy it will be to work with your SPE?   
5) For various personal reasons, I am seriously thinking of making this a long-term career choice.  Generally, I like the idea of being involved in government service and working in the public interest (even if at times it is tedious or tiring.)  On the other hand, as I noted before, an important draw for me to me for this job is the ability to have a life, a good amount of time with kids and family (not an easy thing to have at a fast-moving law firm.)   I have noticed that some posters say that as you get higher and higher (GS-13 and 14), the production quotas get nastier and the ability to have a long-term career gets more and more painful.  In other words, it seems like your increased efficiency doesn't keep pace with the more demanding quota.  Do ex- or current Examiners agree with this interpretation?
Thank you for your help again!  (particularly to ExaminerEsq and MechD for responding so quickly.)

 
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MechD

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Re: Working for the USPTO
« Reply #4497 on: 10-25-10 at 11:49 am »

Thank you for your comments, they're really helpful.  I had some follow-up questions:
1) MechD wrote that how easy the work is depends a lot on your art.  I would appreciate hearing more details about what that means exactly.  For example, my art field seems to be broad but not technically terribly advanced (i.e., not advanced physics, chemistry, biotech, but straightforward engineering and computer science.)  In other words, I think I will have no problem quickly grasping the technical aspects.  But are technically non-advanced areas necessarily easier to examine?  Could they be harder in some areas (e.g., software methods), because they are just too abstract or broad to find prior art for?  Or are the odds good that my field will generally be easier to deal with?
2) Also, in your view, what is it that the Examiner has to grasp quickly to be efficient and have an easier time of it?  For example, MechD wrote that how easy the job is depends on how quickly you catch on.  I have done some patent prosecution work in the past, and feel quite comfortable with, for example, claims and examiner interviews.  Will that make my job a lot easier?  Or is there something else that determines whether you "catch on" quickly?
3) I'll be starting as a GS9, not a 5 or 7.  Will that put a lot more pressure on me to produce?
4) I know who my SPE is, and he seems very nice on the phone.  Of course, I can't say I really know him very well.  A lot of people have noted that the SPE makes or breaks your job.  Is there some way of finding out how easiy it will be to work with your SPE?   
5) For various personal reasons, I am seriously thinking of making this a long-term career choice.  Generally, I like the idea of being involved in government service and working in the public interest (even if at times it is tedious or tiring.)  On the other hand, as I noted before, an important draw for me to me for this job is the ability to have a life, a good amount of time with kids and family (not an easy thing to have at a fast-moving law firm.)   I have noticed that some posters say that as you get higher and higher (GS-13 and 14), the production quotas get nastier and the ability to have a long-term career gets more and more painful.  In other words, it seems like your increased efficiency doesn't keep pace with the more demanding quota.  Do ex- or current Examiners agree with this interpretation?
Thank you for your help again!  (particularly to ExaminerEsq and MechD for responding so quickly.)

1) There are no hard or fast rules on how "easy" an art is. Personally, I prefer simpler technology in a limited area with fewer hours/BD than more complex stuff in a wider area with more hours/BD. The more hours you get per case, the more likely you will get nightmarish cases. The narrower an area, the more narrow your search can be, thus saving you a ton of time. If you have to span 8 different classes to find all the parts you need to fashion a horrible 103, the worse off you are.

2) This job is not like any other job you have ever held. Outside of biotech and the chemical arts, I can't imagine previous technical experience mattering a whole lot. Also, you won't know if you are good at it until you start doing it. It will help that you have previous patent experience and already understand the law. That will make getting started a little quicker when all you have to focus on is learning how to search (and reject) efficiently. The most important skill you need is realizing that no matter your education, experience, or background, you do not know any better than your SPE. Listen to him/her and do what they say. I have met many ex-attorneys with X years of experience who think they know better, fight their SPEs, and have a horrible time because of this. Until you are a primary, he's calling the shots.

3) No, there is not more pressure than if you came in as a 5 or 7, just larger paychecks. Your quota will be marginally higher, but it's really not that big of a jump. Just trend upwards in your production and aim for 100% each biweek by 10-12 months in.

4) No, not until you start actually working for him. He might be a really nice guy, but a total nobhole when it comes to his job. The trick is talking directly to him early on and asking him something along the lines of "who is your most successful junior examiner, and what does he/she do that makes him/her that way?" Also, talk to other junior examiners in your AU and find out any tips/tricks they have for working with your SPE.

5) There is a big step between GS12 and GS14. It's 50% more work. The two years beween 13 and 14 is pretty stressful. Quite a few people I know just make it to 12 to be able to work from home, and just camp out there for a few years. Staying at 12 is not a good strategy, though, because you are still at the whim of your SPE when it comes to allowing cases. Once you're a 14, some, but not, all the increased workload is mitigated by being able to negotiate with attorneys and to get the quick allowances. If you're a family man and want long-term, stable work with decent pay, good benefits, and the ability to make your own hours, I really can't think of of a better job.

Good luck, and I hope the job works out for you!
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greencha

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Re: Working for the USPTO
« Reply #4498 on: 10-26-10 at 09:43 am »

Thank you, MechD, your advice is really helpful and seems very practical.

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greencha

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Re: Working for the USPTO
« Reply #4499 on: 10-26-10 at 03:27 pm »

Since this forum has been so helpful, a couple more questions came up that it would be great to hear peoples' thoughts on:

1) Based on what MechD wrote, it seems the transition between GS12 and 14 can be tough, because of production requirements combined with the need to still get permission from a SPE for aspects of prosecution.  I can see it could be a particularly great job if you are able to make deals with attorneys without need for any supervision or permissions (e.g., no need to get permission to issue an allowance.)  When is that achieved?  Is it by GS-14?  Also, are you allowed to earn and retain that level of authority while hoteling?  Finally, how long would it take, say, a GS-9 to get to that level?  I think I've heard 4 years (assuming good, steady progression), but I am not sure if that's correct.

2) In the EE and computer science arts, are there particular art units that are known to good places to work, perhaps because the SPEs are nice, or the art is interesting/easy to examine, or whatever other reason?

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts!   
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