Working for the USPTO

[newb]

About the letter to registered Agents/Attorneys encouraging experienced practitioners to apply as examiners, do you think it's worth applying right now if you're a newly minted Agent with no experience?

Maybe your should contact the HR person Ronald Taylor:
HR is going to determine whether you meet the necessary qualifications based on your KSA answers.

This is the contact info from the USAJOBS website:
AGENCY CONTACT INFO:

    Ronald Taylor
    Phone: 571-272-6190
    TDD: 1-800-828-1120
    Email: patentresumes@uspto.gov

[stuffball]

Okay, so now that the PTO is in the midst of a hiring frenzy... are they re-instating the tuition reimbursement program?  Seems like it would be a nice gesture to un-fuck all those examiners who were midway through law school when they revoked it.

[Examinerguy]

Okay, so now that the PTO is in the midst of a hiring frenzy... are they re-instating the tuition reimbursement program?  Seems like it would be a nice gesture to un-fuck all those examiners who were midway through law school when they revoked it.

Not a chance in my opinion. I just don't think that is part of the agenda anymore. It's all about the backlog from here on out (until it is under control).

[stuffball]

You're right that it's all about the backlog, but I don't think that's what's changed.  I think what's changed, and why the PTO no longer offers tuition reimbursement, is that it doesn't have to.  In better times, tuition reimbursement was an incentive to get qualified people who would otherwise leave to stick around for 6 years.  Now there are plenty of out of work patent agents and attorneys who will work for cheap.

[Examinerguy]

Also agree with that statement.

[coffee mug]

I think there is an issue as to whether tuition reimbursement was a good idea to begin with. 

When the PTO has a growing backlog, many Examiners don't understand the basics of claim interpretation or simple precedent on obviousness, and many Office Actions have not a single coherent sentence, why is it that the PTO should be dumping resources into paying its employees to obtain degrees that are of no value to the job of a patent examiner?  It seems to me that the resouces of the PTO should be first and foremost dedicated to improving the services rendered by the PTO, and they are in great need of improvement.

If the tuition reimbursement program was of any value, it was because it gave so many engineering graduates an excuse to become a patent examiner and ultimately many of those did not utilize the program.  In other words, it attracted more people to the job while being seldom utilized.

[LivingItUp]

. 
When the PTO has a growing backlog, many Examiners don't understand the basics of claim interpretation or simple precedent on obviousness, and many Office Actions have not a single coherent sentence, why is it that the PTO should be dumping resources into paying its employees to obtain degrees that are of no value to the job of a patent examiner?  It seems to me that the resouces of the PTO should be first and foremost dedicated to improving the services rendered by the PTO, and they are in great need of improvement.

Yeah, the money is better spent.

We need to increase the female population of examiners. How about mobile salon vans that provide hair styling, facials, nail treatments, etc. The vans can show up at scheduled times, and park right in front of Madison. We leak to everyone (the media especially) that the USPTO is a very friendly place for female workers.

The vans also provide roaming massage artists that can be scheduled for neck/back massages.

Examining is a stressful job; it would be great to mix in a few massages while you are knocking out some actions.

[coffee mug]

Examining is the least stressful job I've ever had.  Also, I'd say that the lack of female examiners is attributable to the lack of female engineers. 

[somedude]

The USPTO should provide free dinner to encourage everyone to work voluntary overtime.

[coffee mug]

I have worked nearly every type of job from retail, to restaurants, to construction, to engineering, to criminal law, to patent examiner, to patent attorney, and I can tell you point blank that patent examining was the easiest.  If you have half a brain, patent examining is easier than the retail jobs I worked in highschool for minimum wage.  It is also has the best stress to dollar ratio of any job I've had aside from patent attorney, which is much more stressful but also pays much much more.

When viewing the job of patent examining as a whole, including compensation, benefits, minimum required education, expectations, qualitative requirements on work output (or complete lack thereof), necessity of satisfying customers/clients/anyone (or complete lack thereof), independence, security, retirement, etc., it is amazing that to me that patent examiners find so much to complain about.


Before paying for free dinners or massages, the PTO should invest some money in re-educating the examining core on the basics of patent law.  From my experience, there are many examiners, including primary examiners, who do not understand very simple issues on topics such as result-effective variables, rearrangement of parts, or concise explanation of relevance in an IDS. 

[Examinerguy]

coffee...you are a minority in your opinions. I speak with examiners every day who have decades of experience in a dozen other fields/careers. It is almost a unanimous answer that I get from all of them. They say "this job is the worst job I have ever had." Keep in mind that those who come to the office as second/third careers have been in engineering the majority of their lives...so maybe they just aren't used to the reading, researching and writing that is involved day in and day out without pause.

What proves that you are in the minority as well are (I know, I'm a broken record) the attrition numbers during non-recession times.

[stuffball]

I think patent examining can be the easiest job in the world and simultaneously suck ass.  I never thought examining was hard, never worked long hours for the PTO and thought the benefits were great.  The pay was pretty good too.  It was awesome when you considered how little you had to work for it.

The three things I didn't like about it were:  1) I never saw or did anything new once I got used to my art - same thing day in day out.  Same applicants, same prior art and, much of the time, the same claims to search.  Easy, but soul-crushing.  2)  I felt the PTO didn't treat its Examiners like they were professionals.  I felt that way because it didn't.  3) I felt like I'd get more respect from the lay public as a patent attorney than a patent examiner and, yet, would be doing a very similar job. I was half right about that.

[stuffball]

I think there is an issue as to whether tuition reimbursement was a good idea to begin with. 

When the PTO has a growing backlog, many Examiners don't understand the basics of claim interpretation or simple precedent on obviousness, and many Office Actions have not a single coherent sentence, why is it that the PTO should be dumping resources into paying its employees to obtain degrees that are of no value to the job of a patent examiner?  It seems to me that the resouces of the PTO should be first and foremost dedicated to improving the services rendered by the PTO, and they are in great need of improvement.

If the tuition reimbursement program was of any value, it was because it gave so many engineering graduates an excuse to become a patent examiner and ultimately many of those did not utilize the program.  In other words, it attracted more people to the job while being seldom utilized.

I agree that the tuition reimbursement program didn't really make too much sense from the PTO's perspective.  I think you accurately characterize how and why it was used.  I suppose I do have a problem, though, with the PTO so abruptly yanking it knowing how badly this will hurt an, admittedly small, number of their employees.  I mean, if you're going to to GW or GULC revoking tuition reimbursement literally cuts your salary in half.  If the PTO gave a shit about its employees it would have worked out some kind of compromise so these people wouldn't get so screwed.  Moreover, for an institution like the PTO, forgoing tuition for a handful of examiners isn't exactly going to save buckets of money.   It hurts the few employees taking advantage of the program much more than it helps the institution. 

Of course, the PTO doesn't owe them anything and it never made any guarantees.  It revoked the program in the past without warning and this was undoubtedly known to anybody in the program this past fall.  I'm not saying the PTO is guilty of out and out deception or foul play.  I'm just saying that revoking tuition reimbursement shows how little concern they have for their employees. 

[LivingItUp]

I have worked nearly every type of job from retail, to restaurants, to construction, to engineering, to criminal law, to patent examiner, to patent attorney, and I can tell you point blank that patent examining was the easiest. 
When viewing the job of patent examining as a whole, including compensation, benefits, minimum required education, expectations, qualitative requirements on work output (or complete lack thereof), necessity of satisfying customers/clients/anyone (or complete lack thereof), independence, security, retirement, etc., it is amazing that to me that patent examiners find so much to complain about.

If everything is so great, then why do hundreds of examiners quit every year? Why are hundreds quitting in the middle of this "Great Recession"?

[DogDayPM 9er9er9er]

I think patent examining can be the easiest job in the world and simultaneously suck ass.  I never thought examining was hard, never worked long hours for the PTO and thought the benefits were great.  The pay was pretty good too.  It was awesome when you considered how little you had to work for it.

The three things I didn't like about it were:  1) I never saw or did anything new once I got used to my art - same thing day in day out.  Same applicants, same prior art and, much of the time, the same claims to search.  Easy, but soul-crushing.  2)  I felt the PTO didn't treat its Examiners like they were professionals.  I felt that way because it didn't.  3) I felt like I'd get more respect from the lay public as a patent attorney than a patent examiner and, yet, would be doing a very similar job. I was half right about that.

Hiya Stuff.  I really appreciate perspectives shared from folks like you, Klav', `Chute, who've been on both sides of the exam/pros fence, so thank you for providing insights into the problems and pressures faced. 

The thing that struck me about your post was the similarity between your statement "...PTO didn't treat its Examiners like they were professionals" and a fairly frequent very similar complaint from 2 of my relatives who are teachers. 

What I've tried to explain to them is that there is a fundamental disconnect between employees who on the one hand desire to be seen as professionals, and on the other hand desire to be protected under the umbrella of a collective bargaining arrangement/union.  That's probably overstated in the case of many Examiners, since I have no clue how many actually WANT to be represented by POPA, but at least as I understand it, so represented they are.  IMHO, employers will view union-represented employees as essentially blue collar, even if on salary, and not as "professionals".