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[BioEBear]

Hello all,

I am a current undergraduate student majoring in bioengineering who will be attending law school next fall.  I have been fortunate enough to be accepted to both Yale and Stanford, and am having an extremely difficult time deciding which school to attend.  I know that both schools are incredible, but I would like to hear some opinions from current law students and attorneys about the merits and drawbacks of both schools.

A little about me:
- I am a Southern California native and a student at U.C. Berkeley.  I am leaning toward working in either LA or SF after law school, but I have not ruled out NY or DC.
- I am interested in intellectual property law (particularly, biotechnology), but will also explore other fields of law while in law school (bankruptcy, antitrust, M&A, and healthcare law seem most appealing at the moment).
- I would like to clerk after law school, preferably at the appellate or (yeah right) Supreme Court level.
- I have also been accepted to Stanford's Masters of Science in Bioengineering (resulting in a 3-year joint J.D./M.S.).

And now a few specific questions:
- Knowing that Stanford is the king of IP law, would I be foolish to choose Yale over Stanford (I'm not 100% sure I want to do IP law)?
- Keeping in mind that I have ties to both LA and SF, how would career prospects from Yale and Stanford compare if I were to work in California?  If I were to work in NY/DC?
- How useful would a M.S. in bioengineering be for someone who wants to practice biotech IP?
- I know that the most important factor in making my decision is "fit," but do you guys have any other thoughts (or overall thoughts) on Y vs. S for someone in my shoes?

Sorry for the lengthy 1st post!

[JazzyJ]

First off, congratulations on your achievements so far!!! If it were me, I would do the MS/JD program.  If you do decide to go into IP, 97% of your biotech clients will have PhDs.  I don't think having an advance degree in an IP biotech field is an absolute necessity but by having only a BS degree you will be in the minority.

Regardless of what field you go into, I think having a MS/JD at the end of three years is worth it.  Anything that will separate you from the rest of the pack and make you a more desirable candidate in the eyes of your clients is worth doing.

Good luck & congrats!

[MYK]

Yale is the king of clerkships, but personally, I can't stand the East Coast, so I think anyone would have to be insane to go there.

Antitrust ties in well with IP.

Oh, and I'd hold the master's program in reserve until partway or fully through law school.  Your 1L year will be fixed-curriculum anyway, but you may as well do 2L and see what the job market looks like before starting in on the master's.  That way, you can always skip the master's if you decide you're eager to clerk or otherwise work.

Most of the dual-degree students here seem to do 1L, then do the other program, then come back for 2L.  Seems like a bad idea to me, since it locks them into going for three more years after 1L, whereas if they did 2L and then the master's, they'd have the option of just doing 3L (one more year, or two counting 2L) and then exiting without the master's if they were to get a good offer.

[horsechute]

Congratulations....

Stanford would be my choice. Close to the leading edge in all areas of science, and the IP professionals (ie, jobs) to back it up. And rankings mean little at the top, in my opinion. You'll do well either way. Why would you want to leave the area? It's great.

Just don't make a decision to go to one school just because it is ranked a little higher. The other things, in your situation, are more important.

[BioEBear]

Thanks for the replies, everyone!  You all have some very compelling reasons for attending Stanford, but do you think there is something to be said for experiencing the East Coast for 3 years?  I've been in California my whole life and think it might be beneficial to try something completely new.  Also, should I take into consideration grading systems?  Yale grades on a Pass/Honors system without a curve, while Stanford grades on a Pass/Honors/Book Prizes system that is curved.

[MYK]

Thanks for the replies, everyone!  You all have some very compelling reasons for attending Stanford, but do you think there is something to be said for experiencing the East Coast for 3 years?

I suppose there's an analogy to a guy who pounds his head against a brick wall, because it feels so good when he stops, but other than that. . . .

I've been in California my whole life and think it might be beneficial to try something completely new.

How about raising rabbits?  Juggling?  Juggling baby rabbits?  Chess?

Also, should I take into consideration grading systems?  Yale grades on a Pass/Honors system without a curve, while Stanford grades on a Pass/Honors/Book Prizes system that is curved.

If you want to.  I don't see why the systems would matter to you unless you really want to be one of the ones who gets honors or a "book prize" or whatever.

Don't mind me.  It's just one of those days.

[dablueman]

I've been in California my whole life and think it might be beneficial to try something completely new.

The grass is NOT greener on the other side, both figuratively and literally. Since you have the choice, go where the cows are happier.

[kjw5029]

With respect to location...

I'm from the east coast, but have lived for a period of time on the west coast.  I must say, I thoroughly enjoy the west coast much more than the east coast.  It could have been the change of pace that made me enjoy my time there so much, but either way, I don't see why you would choose New Haven over Stanford.  I haven't been to Stanford, but have spent some time in the San Jose area and like it much more than New Haven.  But hey, who am I to say the change of pace wouldn't have the same effect on you?

[MYK]

Even the seagulls are nicer on the West Coast.  East Coast seagulls are a lot like rats but with wings.

[BioEBear]

Would having the MS in bioengineering even help me that much?  I understand that a client will prefer an attorney with a MS over one without it, but I've heard that PhD's are essentially required for biology-related fields (and I certainly don't want to get a PhD)...

[Sixes]

Would having the MS in bioengineering even help me that much?  I understand that a client will prefer an attorney with a MS over one without it, but I've heard that PhD's are essentially required for biology-related fields (and I certainly don't want to get a PhD)...

This tells me that you are very intelligent. 

If it were me, I'd stay in California.  You may love New Haven, or you might hate the winters or the small town or any of a hundred things that you already know you like near home.  Once you go, you're there for 3 years.  My advice would be to get your JD and then, if you want to experience the East Coast, look for a job there.  In that case, if you don't like the East Coast thing, you aren't locked in due to school.

[ChiefJRoberts]

Hello all,

I am a current undergraduate student majoring in bioengineering who will be attending law school next fall.  I have been fortunate enough to be accepted to both Yale and Stanford, and am having an extremely difficult time deciding which school to attend.  I know that both schools are incredible, but I would like to hear some opinions from current law students and attorneys about the merits and drawbacks of both schools.

A little about me:
- I am a Southern California native and a student at U.C. Berkeley.  I am leaning toward working in either LA or SF after law school, but I have not ruled out NY or DC.
- I am interested in intellectual property law (particularly, biotechnology), but will also explore other fields of law while in law school (bankruptcy, antitrust, M&A, and healthcare law seem most appealing at the moment).
- I would like to clerk after law school, preferably at the appellate or (yeah right) Supreme Court level.
- I have also been accepted to Stanford's Masters of Science in Bioengineering (resulting in a 3-year joint J.D./M.S.).

And now a few specific questions:
- Knowing that Stanford is the king of IP law, would I be foolish to choose Yale over Stanford (I'm not 100% sure I want to do IP law)?
- Keeping in mind that I have ties to both LA and SF, how would career prospects from Yale and Stanford compare if I were to work in California?  If I were to work in NY/DC?
- How useful would a M.S. in bioengineering be for someone who wants to practice biotech IP?
- I know that the most important factor in making my decision is "fit," but do you guys have any other thoughts (or overall thoughts) on Y vs. S for someone in my shoes?

Sorry for the lengthy 1st post!

First off, no law school is known as the King of IP Law. All that matters is the school's ranking and your class rank. It matters even more in this economy. Second, for bioengineering, I hear you have to have a PhD. You would be a great candidate for patent litigation, which does not require a science background. Third, you need to go where you think you'll be happier. The weather out in SF is great compared to the harsh winters of the Northeast. You're really splitting hairs here, so I don't think any law firm will say, "You're an idiot for choosing Stanford over Yale." One thing that I would consider is what school is better for a clerkship. If I were you, I would try and get a judicial clerkship after law school at the Federal Circuit or Regional Circuit courts. Then I would apply for a clerkship at the Supreme Court (although you might have a problem with Justice Thomas since he does not like elitists and says it's a strike against you if you went to an ivy league). After your clerkship, you'll get a big fat bonus and can work with just about any firm in the country.

also you should realize that only 50% or so of Harvard 3Ls have jobs at Big firms. this is way below normal due to the economy. Things might get better by 2013 when you graduate but i'm not a soothsayer and don't have a crystal ball. it seems like to me you've already made up your mind about stanford. where's your family at? it will be much easier to see them if you are closer by. as a law school graduate i know that Thanksgiving and spring break time can be lonely without people around.

[PatentDave]

I see no reason why you should be excluded from patent prosecution as the previous poster has somewhat implied.  You've said that you're not certain on IP yet, and at this point you are right to have an open mindset.  That said, it seems that Stanford's dual program would be better if you were to ultimately be a patent prosecutor because having at least an M.S. over a B.S. is a substantial advantage.  But, maybe some of Yale's clerkship opportunities might offer you a leg up as a future patent litigator.  Of course, you're not sold on IP yet, let alone what area to focus.  And there are those west coast vs. east coast sea gulls to consider.

[Robert K S]

Tangential question--(opinion collection)--how much does the school matter if one is already an experienced practitioner?

[stuffball]

Both schools are so good, it probably doesn't matter much.  You might as well pick the best place to spend 3 years.  Palo Alto beats the crap out of New Haven.