pharmapatent2
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« on: 03-09-10 at 10:02 am » |
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Hi,
I was wondering if i could get some advice from all of you in the patent field. I am finishing up my PhD in about year in Pharmacology & Neuroscience and i am interested in going to law school and working in patent law. Based on where i am right now, i don't see myself graduating with my law degree for another 4 years. But from these forums i am seeing that so many patent lawyers are coming out of school and having a hard time finding jobs. Do you guys see this changing in the next 4-5 years or staying the same? Also what do you guys think about jobs in pharma and bio patent law....is the job outlook good in this field of patent law?
I appreciate any thoughts on these questions!
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blakesq
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« Reply #1 on: 03-09-10 at 10:55 am » |
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Tough to predict the future. In 4 or 5 years, the economy can go into a boom, and hit a recession again by the time you get out of law school. You just can't predict. I guess the real answer is, go to law school ONLY if you REALLY want to be lawyer. Then, no matter the state of the economy, you will do what it takes to get your foot in the door. Good luck!
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« Last Edit: 03-09-10 at 06:22 pm by blakesq »
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whokebe
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« Reply #2 on: 03-09-10 at 10:58 am » |
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Agreed with above that you can't tell where things are headed. Keep in mind, however, that the state of the market during your second year of law school is generally more important than when you graduate, because that's when you're most likely to get a job. Or at least, that's the way it has been in the past.
More importantly, if you have an interesting PhD, why the hell do you want to go to law school? I don't understand you people; then again, I don't have a PhD.
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horsechute
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« Reply #3 on: 03-09-10 at 03:29 pm » |
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"go to law school ONLY if you REALLY want to be lawyer"
My guess is that if you took out the money and "prestige" factor of being a lawyer, the law schools would empty out.
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polostar
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« Reply #4 on: 03-09-10 at 04:37 pm » |
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More importantly, if you have an interesting PhD, why the hell do you want to go to law school? I don't understand you people; then again, I don't have a PhD.
It's very common for PhDs to want to get out of science right now. To get a permanent position in academia you must spend 5+ years as a graduate student, then spend approximately that long as a post-doc earning marginally more money. During your post doc you very often have to relocate to a different city every 2 years or so. During your post-doc you apply for tenure track positions, which according to one of the department heads at Ohio State University they will get 70-80 applications for a single position. If you manage to get that tenure track position they will work you to the bone for 7 more years before they finally grant you tenure. At any point during that time they can fire you and you have to start all over again. So, when you compare that kind of life with getting a law degree in only 3 years, plus prestige, plus more money at your first job then what you would make as a tenured professor, plus greater freedom in living location etc. etc. you can see why so many scientists are gravitating towards law. I don't have a PhD, but I interviewed at two pretty prestigious institutions (Ohio State and University of Texas Southwestern) for graduate school and I'm realizing more and more what a dicey career path the PhD is. Now I have to answer the question, is it worth going to 5+ years of graduate school, plus another 3 years of law school just so I can work in patent law. Seems like a little overkill. |
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smgsmc
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« Reply #5 on: 03-09-10 at 08:39 pm » |
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I don't have a PhD, but I interviewed at two pretty prestigious institutions (Ohio State and University of Texas Southwestern) for graduate school and I'm realizing more and more what a dicey career path the PhD is. Now I have to answer the question, is it worth going to 5+ years of graduate school, plus another 3 years of law school just so I can work in patent law. Seems like a little overkill.
If you look over these threads, if you are specifically interested in becoming a patent atty, then a PhD gains you little advantage (with the apparent exception of bio/pharma). You should go for a PhD program if you truly enjoy research. In this respect, a PhD program is more an end in itself, rather than a means to an end. If you go for a JD, or an MD, or an MBA, you've earned credentials that can launch you into a great career. But, as you have noted, the number of faculty positions are small relative to the candidate pool. And, unfortunately, practically all the great industrial R&D labs of yesteryear have either been killed off or are on life support. And, unless there's a major stimulus package, the Federal R&D Labs have limited opportunities. At least in a science and engineering PhD program, you generally get full tuition waiver plus a stipend ... so you have something to live on and don't graduate with a huge debt. |
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stuffball
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« Reply #6 on: 03-09-10 at 09:13 pm » |
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I got a science PhD and went into law. what people are saying above is entirely accurate. May people, including me, choose law over academia because of the dismal career prospects. Generally, you don't need a PhD to be a patent lawyer. It doesn't hurt, though, and often impresses clients. That said, unless you're talking about bio/pharma, it's not worth the effort and time. Even in bio/pharma it might not be worth the money and the time.
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polostar
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« Reply #7 on: 03-10-10 at 09:47 am » |
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So, here's a question. If I don't have a PhD but I do have a B.S. in molecular biology, what kind of patent fields would I be able to work in. It looks like it's pretty hard to get into bio/pharm work without the PhD, but what other fields are there? This whole patent law thing is still pretty new for me.
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ChiefJRoberts
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« Reply #8 on: 03-11-10 at 01:59 pm » |
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So, here's a question. If I don't have a PhD but I do have a B.S. in molecular biology, what kind of patent fields would I be able to work in. It looks like it's pretty hard to get into bio/pharm work without the PhD, but what other fields are there? This whole patent law thing is still pretty new for me.
if you have a degree from a top law school, then you can do patent lit depending on the economy and your class rank. you cannot do prosecution without the PhD...well you can, but firms want PhDs for prosecution work. |
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MYK
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« Reply #9 on: 03-11-10 at 02:59 pm » |
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Just curious, would getting an MSEE help, or do firms really only count the MSEE if you started with a BSEE?
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Disclaimer: not only am I not a lawyer, I'm not your lawyer. Therefore, this does not constitute legal advice.
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polostar
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« Reply #10 on: 03-12-10 at 12:57 pm » |
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Has it always been like this or is this just a factor of the current recession? Would firms hire MS degree holders in say the 2000-2005 time frame when things were a little more normal? Also, is the story different for in house patent attorneys? At the company I work for I don't think anyone has a PhD in our law department, including the patent specific positions.
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DogDayPM 9er9er9er
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« Reply #11 on: 03-12-10 at 02:11 pm » |
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Has it always been like this or is this just a factor of the current recession? Would firms hire MS degree holders in say the 2000-2005 time frame when things were a little more normal? Also, is the story different for in house patent attorneys? At the company I work for I don't think anyone has a PhD in our law department, including the patent specific positions.
I can't speak to your specific degree type (molecular biology), but I think it must be at least partly driven by the economy. But as to your question about whether the conditions are different in-house, I'd have to say no in any industry just from a logical standpoint. That is, it's very rare for corporations to hire new grads, so almost all in-house attorneys are former law firm attorneys. So the flip side of this is, if you are correct that your company's patent attorneys are all BS/MS types, unless they're all freaks who jumped straight from law school to in-house, firms must have been hiring non-PhDs in their disciplines. |
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Any and all disclaimers you may see on this forum used by members more experienced and/or smarter than I, are hereby incorporated by reference as if fully set forth herein.
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liljaykt
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« Reply #12 on: 03-20-10 at 02:01 pm » |
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How marketable is a female patent attorney with a BS in physics. In what regions and types of companies should I be looking? Thanks.
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DogDayPM 9er9er9er
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« Reply #13 on: 03-20-10 at 05:06 pm » |
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How marketable is a female patent attorney with a BS in physics. In what regions and types of companies should I be looking? Thanks.
What concentration in physics? Note that some in-house depts (Abbott Medical Optics, Coopervision, both in the Orange County CA area) are clamoring for patent attorneys with optical physics experience. NCR in Atlanta, GA also (but they specifically also want licensing experience). Male/female I think makes no diff, unless you're talking about an all-male in-house dept that's trying to correct its numbers... |
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Any and all disclaimers you may see on this forum used by members more experienced and/or smarter than I, are hereby incorporated by reference as if fully set forth herein.
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liljaykt
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« Reply #14 on: 03-22-10 at 01:34 pm » |
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Our physics department didn't have any concentrations. I took optics with all the applicable labs, and my senior thesis was on an optics related topic.
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