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Author Topic: Provisional Patent or do I get a Design Patent?  (Read 953 times)
domerdel
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« on: 08-11-10 at 04:22 pm »

I have a friend who wants to patent a really good idea. I've been doing some research, and I came across LegalZoom.com. The problem I'm having is whether to go all the way with a Design Patent or just keep with a provisional. 

The patent is clothing related. It's not so much the design of the clothing item that is unique but how it functions. This is where it gets a bit lost because I'm not sure if the legal world would see it the way I do. From what I understand, Design patents protect the unique appearance, but not the functionality. Something tells me Murphy's law will come to bite me in the rear if I choose wrong.

Would it be a safe (and low cost) bet to go a provisional patent, until I figure out what the proper method would be? Legal zoom has one for $310 (after gov't filing fees) vs. the design patent which is over $1,100…
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DogDayPM 9er9er9er
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« Reply #1 on: 08-11-10 at 06:59 pm »

domerdel, sorry for a quick "drive by post", but here's some basic information.

A design patent application is what you file to try to protect the ornamental features of a thing - essentially protects only how the thing looks.  Once you apply, the patent office will examine your application to see if your proposed design is patentable.  If so, you can then pay an additional fee to have the design patent granted.  The design patent process often involves some arguing with the patent office relating to patentability and can take easily 18 months to 3+ years.

A provisional patent application and a utility patent application relate to what the thing is or how it is used or made, etc.  Notable distinction here -  a provisional patent application never becomes a patent.  It merely allows you a 1-year option to file a utility patent application that claims as its filing date the date you filed the provisional app.  The utility patent application is then examined by the patent office to see if it is patentable.  If so, you then can pay an additional fee to have the utility patent granted.  The utility patent process often involves a fair bit of arguing with the patent office relating to patentability and can take easily 2.5 to 5+ years.  Not trying to dissuade you, just trying to level-set expectations.

And one thing to bear in mind is that with a forms provider like LegalZoom, what you are getting is the forms needed and at least some (I hope) "how to" information.  They do not get you "a patent".  This is fine, but you need to understand what you are getting with them and also understand that the process does not automatically return a granted patent of either sort - a point I'm not sure the forms providers' websites adequately convey.
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bleedingpen
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« Reply #2 on: 08-11-10 at 07:03 pm »

I would be absolutely shocked if more than 1/10 of a percent of patents obtained through legal zoom have any commercial value.
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DogDayPM 9er9er9er
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« Reply #3 on: 08-11-10 at 07:25 pm »

I would be absolutely shocked if more than 1/10 of a percent of patents obtained through legal zoom have any commercial value.

Careful, Bob Shapiro may show up riding the ghost of Dighton's past and threaten you with unsettled law.
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bleedingpen
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« Reply #4 on: 08-11-10 at 07:31 pm »

I would be absolutely shocked if more than 1/10 of a percent of patents obtained through legal zoom have any commercial value.

Careful, Bob Shapiro may show up riding the ghost of Dighton's past and threaten you with unsettled law.

I aint skeered
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domerdel
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« Reply #5 on: 08-11-10 at 10:23 pm »

domerdel, sorry for a quick "drive by post", but here's some basic information.

A design patent application is what you file to try to protect the ornamental features of a thing - essentially protects only how the thing looks.  Once you apply, the patent office will examine your application to see if your proposed design is patentable.  If so, you can then pay an additional fee to have the design patent granted.  The design patent process often involves some arguing with the patent office relating to patentability and can take easily 18 months to 3+ years.

A provisional patent application and a utility patent application relate to what the thing is or how it is used or made, etc.  Notable distinction here -  a provisional patent application never becomes a patent.  It merely allows you a 1-year option to file a utility patent application that claims as its filing date the date you filed the provisional app.  The utility patent application is then examined by the patent office to see if it is patentable.  If so, you then can pay an additional fee to have the utility patent granted.  The utility patent process often involves a fair bit of arguing with the patent office relating to patentability and can take easily 2.5 to 5+ years.  Not trying to dissuade you, just trying to level-set expectations.

And one thing to bear in mind is that with a forms provider like LegalZoom, what you are getting is the forms needed and at least some (I hope) "how to" information.  They do not get you "a patent".  This is fine, but you need to understand what you are getting with them and also understand that the process does not automatically return a granted patent of either sort - a point I'm not sure the forms providers' websites adequately convey.

Thank you for the info. I do realize that provisional really means "patent-pending" and only has a shelf life of 1 yr. What's intriguing about it is, it seems to be the cheapest (that's if i was going thru the legalzoom process). 

The problem remains... determining if this really is a utility based patent or a design patent.

I read somewhere let's say for example the sandal. your everyday beach flip flop.  Well, someone then invented the Tiva, it was the sandal that had the straps for heal support and crossed over velcro near the ankle. the patent was considered a functional and not design related.

Now to try and elaborate my idea is hard without giving it away.  It is clothing related, but it has nothing to do with fashion. it has something to do with women's underwear, that's all i can say, and no nothing perverted lol.  There's a part of it that will be considered functional, non-operative...

So, rather than go the legal zoom "how-to" method, what direction should i go?
« Last Edit: 08-11-10 at 10:25 pm by domerdel » Logged
bartmans
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« Reply #6 on: 08-12-10 at 08:52 am »

The most senseful thing to do is to find a nearby patent attorney and ask him/her what the best strategy is for getting protection. Such an advice may cost some bucks, but it is normally better to pay for something that you need and can use, than to find out afterwards that you have thrown away your money (which wll also often be too late to repair your mistake).
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patentsusa
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« Reply #7 on: 08-12-10 at 12:01 pm »

It sounds like you really need is a utility patent.  It is possible that you may also want a design patent in addition.  Possibly also a trademark registration.  It is best to consult an attorney.  Printing forms and trying to do something yourself will most likely result in nothing of value.  Even with a design patent, you should seek guidance in how much detail to include in the drawings, since the drawings are the patent claim.
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bleedingpen
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« Reply #8 on: 08-12-10 at 01:05 pm »

It sounds like you really need is a utility patent.  It is possible that you may also want a design patent in addition.  Possibly also a trademark registration.  It is best to consult an attorney.  Printing forms and trying to do something yourself will most likely result in nothing of value.  Even with a design patent, you should seek guidance in how much detail to include in the drawings, since the drawings are the patent claim.


Agreed.

Here is my rule of thumb though on design patents- if you aren't actually manufacturing or selling the product, don't waste your time and money on a design patent.  It doesn't sound like this OP is doing so. 
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heyitsjohn2002
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« Reply #9 on: 08-12-10 at 09:16 pm »

domerdel, sorry for a quick "drive by post", but here's some basic information.



Thank you for the info. I do realize that provisional really means "patent-pending" and only has a shelf life of 1 yr. What's intriguing about it is, it seems to be the cheapest (that's if i was going thru the legalzoom process). 

Not sure if I understand this statement, but if you're saying a provisional patent is the cheapest route, that's a misnomer.  Within a year of filing, you'll have to file a non-provisional patent application making claim to the provisional.  So what I think you might be getting at, is that a provisional is a cheap, temporary place holder.

The filing fee for a design patent is $230; however, you'll have to have a spec and drawings - drawings for design patents are about $100 a sheet.  For a good application, really looking at $750 to $1000.  So depending upon the quality of your provisional application, the reality of it is that it may or may not be the cheapest route.  A non-prov app will probably run you $3000 easy.
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heyitsjohn2002
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« Reply #10 on: 08-12-10 at 09:18 pm »

But Dogday's point still stands.

The design patent only protects the ornamental features.  If you're truly talking about "function," that sounds A LOT like utility... ?
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