Are there any options that concern Disclosure protections methods ?

[Jp]

Are there any options that concern Disclosure protections methods in foreign countries,

for example; like here in the U.S., provisional Patent applications or the

previous document disclosure ?

Anything at all ?

[klaviernista]

Not sure I understand your question.  Can you rephrase/clarify it?

[Jp]

Let's see, The patent system and Laws, "there", pertain to first to patent, . .

What I am asking is, if you are out in the Himalayas with your buddies, and you get a great idea for a new clothes pin, and you tell your buddies about it, and later back in civilization, one of your buddies files before you do, . . .

then would you not wish that you had them witness and sign a disclosure ?

Therefore my question is is there some similar temporary documentation that can

provide a protection for a developing idea or one that is developed ?

[JimIvey]

It's important to note a few things.

First, your buddy/ies would not be able to get a patent (at least not in the US).  The Application must be filed in the name of the actual inventors.  If it was your idea and they didn't name you as the inventor, no patent.

Second, it's not enough to come up with the clever idea.  That's not "invention".  You have to reduce it to practice -- by making a working prototype or by writing and filing a complete and sufficient patent application.  So, in your scenario, you never completed the act of invention. 

Documenting conception of invention (coming up with the clever idea) is only important in the US if you work diligently from that point to reducing the idea to practice.  Otherwise, merely coming up with an idea is not helpful in getting a patent, even in a first-to-invent jurisdiction like the US.

Regards.

[Jp]

Jim as always your feedback is appreciated, . .

I'll feel like an awful fool if I don't have this right, . .

First off I'm talking about European Patents, these guys are European's and in this case we are talking about a new kind of, "clothes pin", so theoretically, pretty simple.

OK, we are not talking about Model boy scouts, were talking about the, "un-scrupulous ", OK, . . in Europe "it is first to file",

BTW, according to the following ;

"Reduction to Practice", does not always mean building a working prototype.

Reduce Your Invention to Practice

Once you establish your date of original conception, you have to reduce your invention to practice. In other words prove it works the way you say it does. This is important since reduction to practice is what the US Patent Office relies upon if there is a dispute. The inventor who can show the earlier date, will have precedence. This is usually done in one of the following ways:

   1. Adequate descriptive drawings. This could be the drawings you compiled in your invention disclosure, but additional drawings are almost always needed once some testing and discovery has been done.
   2. The filing of a patent application. This also establishes the legal date. This can be either a provisional patent application or the permanent patent application.
   3. Build a working prototype. A functioning prototype obvious proves the invention's functionality.


So, as I was saying, Maybe buddies was not the right term, but if someone is gonna steal an idea, and I'm sure it happens all the time, they are not going to bother to be truthful when it comes to cashing in with the Property rights.

So, what I am saying, if you have a witnessed document of the conception, is it valid in Europe ?

[JimIvey]

I'll let someone else answer.  I only know US patent law.

In first-to-file jurisdictions (like Europe), I'd be surprised to learn that proof of conception is relevant at all to who wins among multiple applications for the same invention.  However, I would expect there to be something similar to US law in which you can't just file a patent application for someone else's idea.

As for there being unscrupulous people out there, that's true for all law.  Hypothetically, you'd testify that you told these thieves on such and such a date.  Then, one would expect them to come up with proof that they had the idea sooner (or that you didn't say that -- which would still require some proof as to how they thought of the idea).

Generally, lies are detected through cross-examination (in theory).

But here's the rub.  While in the US proving you thought of the idea first can be useful, it's perfectly fine for others to think of the idea later if they file first.  So, evidence cooked up after you told the thieves of your idea might work in Europe (and in the US in many cases).

So, I don't have the answer to that one.  Perhaps another here does.

Regards.

[Jp]

Thanks Jim, you gave it a good try, and it will be interesting to hear from some one who has a first hand knowledge of this inclusion to the European system.