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[Echo]

I'm a bit nervous about the fitness portion of the application.  I've had some bad luck in the past along with some bad decisions.  A few months before my 21st, I received an underage drinking ticket while tailgating for a big football game.  While in undergrad, I received a noise violation because my roommate decided to have a small party on a weeknight.  He left the apartment but didn't turn the music off.  I was awoken by the cops to find that my roommate had left.  Also, I was disciplined by my university for using a file-sharing application.

I need to disclose all of this.  To me, they all individually don't seem like a problem.  But together they make me worried.  Any thoughts?  Am I going to be denied by the USPTO and the state bar at that?

Info: 3L; 25 years old; no other problems.

Thanks!

[blakesq]

Saying you had bad luck is not going to make it look like you learned from your mistakes.  YOu need to completely disclose to the PTO and your local bar exmanining committee.  If you are caught withholding stuff, then, it will be much more difficult for you to get your PTO or bar license.  Based on your 3 infractions, I think it is not too bad, and they should let you in.  But, you need to show that you have been rehabiltated, and learned that what you did was wrong. 

I have a hard time believing you were simply sleeping during a roaring party by your roomie, and the cops woke you up.  Sounds more like you were probably passed out.  If that is the case, along with your underage drinking ticket, you may have a drinking problem.  If the PTO and your local bar thinks you do, it would probably be better for you to start taking care of that problem now, by going to Alcoholic Anonymous meetings, keeping a record of your attendance at those meetings, and admitting you have a problem and are working on it.  Good luck. 

[Echo]

Why would I lie when I'm looking for advice in a forum?  That makes absolutely no sense.  Is a weeknight gathering that I wasn't partaking in really that unbelievable?  But, presumptuous remarks like yours verifies my concern that the PTO and state bar will also draw similar conclusions.  This is where telling the truth could cost me problems.  However, the last thing I'm going to do is not tell the truth.

[horsechute]

Dude, just tell the truth, like you said, and don't worry. Based on lots of people's experiences both in this forum, and some (not a lot) of people in my "real life", this should be no problem. As for the state bar, that should be no problem too, unless you are applying to practice in Utah.

[badtiming]

Go to the USPTO OED website and look up the opinions on who has been denied registration on moral grounds.  I think you'll be relieved when you read what type of conduct constitutes a denial of registration. 

[mk1023]

Go to the USPTO OED website and look up the opinions on who has been denied registration on moral grounds.  I think you'll be relieved when you read what type of conduct constitutes a denial of registration. 

I didn't realize OED published that information.

Most of the offenses seem to involve alcohol
"Petitioner explained that he had been convicted on two separate DWI incidents, once while a senior in high school, and once in 2006 while employed by the USPTO as a patent examiner."

Then there was this one:
"sexually explicit conversations over an Internet chat room with an undercover police officer posing as a 13 year old girl"

[badtiming]

You forgot to add that the second DWI included the use of prescription drugs without a prescription; double whammy.

[vman11]

I have a hard time believing you were simply sleeping during a roaring party by your roomie, and the cops woke you up.  Sounds more like you were probably passed out.  If that is the case, along with your underage drinking ticket, you may have a drinking problem.  If the PTO and your local bar thinks you do, it would probably be better for you to start taking care of that problem now, by going to Alcoholic Anonymous meetings, keeping a record of your attendance at those meetings, and admitting you have a problem and are working on it.

You sound like my mom, in terms of making those extrapolations any ways.

[coffee mug]

I would be extremely surprised if you were denied either your patent registration or state bar registration.  Most people who are denied have repeated alcohol-related convictions, most often DUIs, which are obviously much more serious than non-driving alcohol convictions.  Financial crimes are also considered a very big deal.

One piece of advice - you don't need to give a narrative about the surrounding events.  Just disclose the charge, the date of the charge, the disposition (conviction, reprimand, etc.), and a very brief description of the circumstances.  There is no reason for you to tell them that the cops entered your apartment to find you asleep, or to even bring up your roomate; explaining too many mitigating circumstances will just look like you are making excuses.  If they want a more detailed explanation, they will ask for it.  For example, "On Tuesday, September 24, 19XX, I was given a citation by University Police for loud music in my college dormitory.  On Saturday, October 15, 19XX, I was attending a tailgate party for the UGA v. UF football game, and I was caught with an open container three months before my 21st birthday; I was given a citation for misdemeanor underage drinking.  I pled guilty and paid a fine of $250."   

[coffee mug]

Saying you had bad luck is not going to make it look like you learned from your mistakes.  YOu need to completely disclose to the PTO and your local bar exmanining committee.  If you are caught withholding stuff, then, it will be much more difficult for you to get your PTO or bar license.  Based on your 3 infractions, I think it is not too bad, and they should let you in.  But, you need to show that you have been rehabiltated, and learned that what you did was wrong. 

I have a hard time believing you were simply sleeping during a roaring party by your roomie, and the cops woke you up.  Sounds more like you were probably passed out.  If that is the case, along with your underage drinking ticket, you may have a drinking problem.  If the PTO and your local bar thinks you do, it would probably be better for you to start taking care of that problem now, by going to Alcoholic Anonymous meetings, keeping a record of your attendance at those meetings, and admitting you have a problem and are working on it.  Good luck. 

I disagree.  Attending Alcoholics Anonymous will only raise suspicions under these circumstances - it will do much more harm than good.  Yours would be good advice for someone who had two or more DUIs, not someone who has a single ticket for underage drinking that will be about 4 years old by the time they sit for the bar exam.

[blakesq]

I think Coffee mug is right.  I probably read too much into the original poster's story.  I unfortunately have seen how drugs and alcohol can derail someones life, and probably assumed too much, sorry OP.  And good luck!

Saying you had bad luck is not going to make it look like you learned from your mistakes.  YOu need to completely disclose to the PTO and your local bar exmanining committee.  If you are caught withholding stuff, then, it will be much more difficult for you to get your PTO or bar license.  Based on your 3 infractions, I think it is not too bad, and they should let you in.  But, you need to show that you have been rehabiltated, and learned that what you did was wrong. 

I have a hard time believing you were simply sleeping during a roaring party by your roomie, and the cops woke you up.  Sounds more like you were probably passed out.  If that is the case, along with your underage drinking ticket, you may have a drinking problem.  If the PTO and your local bar thinks you do, it would probably be better for you to start taking care of that problem now, by going to Alcoholic Anonymous meetings, keeping a record of your attendance at those meetings, and admitting you have a problem and are working on it.  Good luck. 

I disagree.  Attending Alcoholics Anonymous will only raise suspicions under these circumstances - it will do much more harm than good.  Yours would be good advice for someone who had two or more DUIs, not someone who has a single ticket for underage drinking that will be about 4 years old by the time they sit for the bar exam.

[anon30]

I'd research the laws of your state and then talk to a good lawyer to see if there's anyway you can get the incident pardoned or sealed.  For example, a lot of the pleas to deferred adjudication for crimes that didn't involve moral turpitude can be pardoned or sealed quite easily after a few years.  Generally, you’ve got to do something really bad (violent felony, felony fraud, etc.) to trigger the moral turpitude.  Once your conviction is sealed or pardoned, you can legally answer "no" to questions regarding arrests on a job app., attorney registration, government job application, etc.  If the issue comes up later in your career, you can show them the documents from the court and the attorney's letter. 

What you don't want to do is lie about it and then get caught without a good reason.  An attorney’s letter and/or court document’s stating that you don’t have to disclose the incident are a very good reason. 

[badtiming]

Ignore the above post.  Even if you're pardoned or the records are sealed or expunged you still have to report it on your bar application and PTO registration application.  The question is not whether you were convicted, but whether the incident occurred.  You're history is minor, you simply need to disclose everything, express regret for the few incidents you have, and show that you have since become a productive member of society and stayed out of trouble.  Do not try to hide the records and then act like the incidents never happened when you fill out your application.  If you do this and the incidents come to light, you will almost certainly be denied admission based on a lack of candor.

[DogDayPM 9er9er9er]

Ignore the above post.  Even if you're pardoned or the records are sealed or expunged you still have to report it on your bar application and PTO registration application.  The question is not whether you were convicted, but whether the incident occurred.  You're history is minor, you simply need to disclose everything, express regret for the few incidents you have, and show that you have since become a productive member of society and stayed out of trouble.  Do not try to hide the records and then act like the incidents never happened when you fill out your application.  If you do this and the incidents come to light, you will almost certainly be denied admission based on a lack of candor.

That fits with what I recall of my state application; heavy emphasis on disclosing everything as it happened no matter any after-the-fact in terms of sealing/expungement, etc.

Unless the bar application explicitly states you can fail to disclose expunged records?

[coffee mug]

I'd research the laws of your state and then talk to a good lawyer to see if there's anyway you can get the incident pardoned or sealed.  For example, a lot of the pleas to deferred adjudication for crimes that didn't involve moral turpitude can be pardoned or sealed quite easily after a few years.  Generally, you’ve got to do something really bad (violent felony, felony fraud, etc.) to trigger the moral turpitude.  Once your conviction is sealed or pardoned, you can legally answer "no" to questions regarding arrests on a job app., attorney registration, government job application, etc.  If the issue comes up later in your career, you can show them the documents from the court and the attorney's letter. 

What you don't want to do is lie about it and then get caught without a good reason.  An attorney’s letter and/or court document’s stating that you don’t have to disclose the incident are a very good reason. 

I am not sure what "you can legally answer 'no'" is supposed to mean.  The question is not what can legally be done, but what is most likely to result in admittance to the bar.  In fact, I am pretty sure you can "legally answer no" even without an expungement or sealed records.  Regardless of expungement, etc., non-disclousre is likely to result in being denied admittance if they catch you.